Evolution

[The Grand Nudger]

Which certain situations are people born into that clearly proves order and justice in the universe?

Can we get an example?

Anybody who is suffering in this life it does due to his-her bad karma.
It doesn't matter whether they go through hardship of any kind, premature death, disabilities of any sort and so on.
As physical actions produce reactions according to the laws of physic also humans experience reactions due to their previous action in this or in different lives.
NDEs are real so what these people say is real.  

By that logic, I suppose we should see the Holocaust as something fair and just when looked at from a cosmic point of view, right?

You can bet that the Israeli that at the moment screw the Palestinians will reborn to experience one more holocaust or any other bad news.
Nothing to do with me VL.
I didn't created the karma or the law of action and reactions.

Take a bow, rather than producing any sort of enlightenment or justice or compassion.....your dog religion has turned you into a petty, cruel and dismissive lunatic.

In the real world, bad things happen to good people..and no more apparently so than when people..like yourself... orchestrate their misery and justify it by claiming that they deserved what they got.

[Little Rik]

Let us summarize the main points.

1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.  

And you still haven't answered the fucking question.  How do you know when the welcome is over?  Apparently you don't know!

For all you know, the God that explain reincarnation to Cathleen was just the welcome wagon, and only reflected her prior belief, rather than anything real.  Who can say?  Obviously not you, because you don't know!

You clearly pay infinite attention to a irrelevant point and miss the important ones.
Your stupidity has no limits yog.    

Yeah, sure.  That's why you've danced around the question without answering it.  You're so full of shit.

2) Cathleen NDE clearly show how God explained the reincarnation and karma factor.
Unfortunately your thick brain didn't get it. (when you ever get something?)

Here I show you again how reincarnation and karma works.

---

I asked Him, 'Please tell me. When we, your children, come into existence, do we live just one time or do we live over and over?' He said, 'It's like this' He took me to the entrance of a hall. We stood and looked down this long hall and there were millions and millions of doorways leading off this hall. He made me aware that there were many choices available to me and that that choice was the very answer to the question I had asked. The choice was up to ME. He made me understand that I could choose to stay where I was, that I could choose to walk down that hall and pick a door. He made me aware that picking a door would be my exit out of heaven and I would be born again out of the womb of some woman somewhere on Earth. I asked Him, 'But how do I know what door to pick?' His reply was merely that the door that I picked is my choice. He could not reveal what that life would be like. It would be a mystery.

I asked Him, 'Do we HAVE to pick another door and live over and over?' That in itself would be hell to me because what I had experienced, in large part, was very sad and distressful.

He told me some people choose to go back again and again. He doesn't want them to. He wants them to stay with Him but He understands my feelings. He explained that when we choose to leave Him He removes all memories of previous lives because He doesn't want us distressed. He means for life to be a good thing for all of us.

---

http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1cathleen_c_nde.html

As you can see God show that there are millions of exit doors.
These doors represent the choices that people follow in their life so according to one actions he-she will have to go through a particular door which again represent his or her actions in his-her previous life.
This is reincarnation and karma in action yog.

And still you fail to grasp the fundamental question at issue.  I could care less that you can pull up some NDE which supports your view, as we can also pull up NDEs that contradict it.  As long as we have contradictions in the content of NDEs, then none of them are reliable.

Take the following excerpt from the NDE of Lorraine Tutmarc:

In my mind I asked, "Where am I?"
I heard a loud, loving voice say, "This is eternity. This is eternity. You are lost!"
It echoed, "You are lost!"
The strong voice came from behind me, so I didn't see who it was, but I knew it was God's voice.
"What is this?" I again asked in my mind.
He replied, "This is the river of death."
His voice echoed, "This is the river of death."
. . . . . . .
He said, "This is the blood that I shed on the cross for your sins."

Lorraine Tutmarc's Near-Death Experience

Here we have Lorraine testifying that God represented the afterlife as being eternal, or never ending, clearly in contradiction to Cathleen's God.  And the God in Lorraine's NDE clearly identifies himself as the God of the bible who was crucified upon the cross and died for mankind's sins.  

Here's what that God said about the afterlife:

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
. . . . . .
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 25:31-46, NASB [emphasis mine]

So we have two NDEs saying completely opposite things.  The question is not does one or the other affirm a certain belief -- it does -- but rather how we can determine which one is presenting a true account of the afterlife, and which is just a "welcome" that simply reflects the person's prior beliefs?  Until you understand this point, all your stupid claims about NDEs will be worthless.

You are free to keep on denying that there is no evidence for reincarnation and karma but the evidence is there whether you like it or no.
Because NDEs are real also what the person who experience the NDE experience something real.  

Dumbass.  You don't even understand the question.

3) I never said that NDEs are not real.
You dream that I said that.
What you don't get it is that the initial welcoming not representing the real face of God has absolutely nothing to do with whether the NDE is real or not.
God can well show you in a different figure in order to give you a welcoming of your choices according to your free will.
That doesn't mean that what God said or show to you is incorrect.

As shown above, this supposed "welcome" can display a God that is totally contrary to what you believe.  Or, is it Cathleen who is reflecting her prior beliefs in a "welcome" that has nothing to do with the real God?  You don't know.  We've already been over this.  You apparently can't tell what is simply a reflection of the person's prior beliefs and what is not.

4) Ritchie does not say that hell is for ever.
In fact he said that life is for ever.
You are the IDIOT that twist his speech so stop being an AH.  

Even more hideous than the bites and kicks they exchanged, were the sexual abuses many were performing in feverish pantomime.  Perversions I had never dreamed of were being vainly attempted all around us.  It was impossible to tell if the howls of frustration which reached us were actual sounds or only the transference of despairing thoughts. Indeed in this disembodied world it didn't seem to matter. Whatever anyone thought, however fleetingly or unwillingly, was instantly apparent to all around him, more completely than words could have expressed it, faster than sound waves could have carried it. ... What was it going to be like, I thought with sudden panic, to live forever where my most private thoughts were not private at all?


Heaven and hell : Dr. George Ritchie's near-death experience [emphasis mine]

5) Clairvoyance is the topic introduced by you therefore is up to you to demonstrate anything you wish to demonstrate.
As far as it concern me so far there is no evidence that a consciousness living in a alive body-brain is able to create a real NDE.

If you're unwilling to defend your claim that NDEs are proof that consciousness leaves the body, that's fine with me.  We'll just have to conclude that your claim was false and that you have no evidence that consciousness leaves the body.

6) People born in a certain situation clearly prove that in the universe there is order and justice.
This is also reiterated in both Cathleen and Ritchie NDEs.

It's obvious from talking to you that you frequently claim that this or that "clearly" indicates something, or that something is "obviously" true, when you don't really have the first fucking clue.  You regularly mistake your mere belief for fact, and constantly evade answering crucial questions, such as the welcome and clairvoyance questions.  So, no, you need to do more than simply claim it.  If you can't demonstrate why what you say is true, then this is just another one of your silly claims, which we can dismiss without a thought.

7) All previous points indicate how dishonest you are both in denying the evidence and giving importance to pointless items while forgetting the important ones.

Yeah, sure.  I'm dishonest, yet you're the one reaching for reasons to dissemble and avoid answering simple questions.  Go blow it out your ass, fucktard.

Every time I read your posts I have to realize that you reach new and new lows.
How low can you get yog?
You already float in the mental sewer.  

Or you have the brain of a 5 years old that can not understand much or you are so dishonest that in order not to sink even further you restore to dirty games such as creating an artificial case saying that that is what I said and then expect me to give evidence.

Why it is so hard to admit that you failed and you are mentally bankrupt?  

If you insist in asking the same question which I already answered several times then I have no choices but to copy and paste the same answer.
However if you wish to play dirty again and again pretending that I did not answer your question then you can well scream louder and louder or write your demented questions in red hoping to impress me.
I got bad news for you yog.

It will not touch me a bit.
All it does is that your brain will sink deeper and deeper in the sewer.

Here I copy and past the same answer once again.


1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.


1) About your new NDE from Lorraine Tutmarc.

No, it does not contradict Cathleen NDE at all.
You are the idiot that didn't get it.
You haven't showed any contradiction in fact.
All you show is some religious story from Matthew which has absolutely nothing to do with the spirituality that we find in the NDEs.
Corrupted priests changed all the story about Jesus life for obvious reasons which are related to these priests hold on power.
Do me a favor yog.
Next time you try to contradict NDEs use something else.
Avoid religious stories.
They carry no truth.
If you really wish to know Jesus life you should read the The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.  

2) Clairvoyance?
Again it is up to you to prove that.
You are the one who introduce the topic.  

---

The running skirmish between the scarecrow and real people with time on their hands continues.

You mean.......the real people who say that the consciousness is a product of the brain and that the physical death is also the death of your consciousness?

Oh, yeah.
Sure son.
How can you be wrong?  

---

Anybody who is suffering in this life it does due to his-her bad karma.
It doesn't matter whether they go through hardship of any kind, premature death, disabilities of any sort and so on.
As physical actions produce reactions according to the laws of physic also humans experience reactions due to their previous action in this or in different lives.
NDEs are real so what these people say is real.  

You can bet that the Israeli that at the moment screw the Palestinians will reborn to experience one more holocaust or any other bad news.
Nothing to do with me VL.
I didn't created the karma or the law of action and reactions.

Take a bow, rather than producing any sort of enlightenment or justice or compassion.....your dog religion has turned you into a petty, cruel and dismissive lunatic.

In the real world, bad things happen to good people..and no more apparently so than when people..like yourself... orchestrate their misery and justify it by claiming that they deserved what they got.

Apparently you seem to know that these good people never did anything wrong in past lives, do you?
Gee, you must be a mind reader.
Do you charge any money for reading minds?  

[Angrboda]

Every time I read your posts I have to realize that you reach new and new lows.
How low can you get yog?
You already float in the mental sewer.  

Or you have the brain of a 5 years old that can not understand much or you are so dishonest that in order not to sink even further you restore to dirty games such as creating an artificial case saying that that is what I said and then expect me to give evidence.

Why it is so hard to admit that you failed and you are mentally bankrupt?  

The more you trash talk, the more I laugh at you.

Here I copy and past the same answer once again.

The same answer that didn't answer the question before!  You go to great lengths to avoid answering a simple question.

Well, if you're not going to answer how we know that the welcome is over, then I guess we never know that the welcome is over, and every last moment of every NDE is nothing but a welcome that reflects the person's prior beliefs.  Apparently, we never do get to anything 'real'.

1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.

What's really stupid is you thinking that this answers the question I asked.  It doesn't, so re-pasting it is pointless.

1) About your new NDE from Lorraine Tutmarc.

No, it does not contradict Cathleen NDE at all.
You are the idiot that didn't get it.
You haven't showed any contradiction in fact.

A possible eternity in a river of death isn't inconsistent with an NDE in which the only two alternatives are reincarnation and staying with a wonderful god?  A traditional Christ figure who talks about being crucified for man's sins isn't inconsistent with a god figure that offers reincarnation?  How stupid can you be?  The figure in Lorraine's NDE is clearly Jesus Christ and despite her claim to not remember much about her Sunday school experiences, she is clearly able to recognize him for who he is.  As Lorraine says, "He knew everything I had ever done, and everything I would ever do in the future, both bad and good," so he would know that she would recognize him as Jesus Christ.  Unless of course, by presenting himself as Jesus Christ he was deceiving her.  Merriam-Webster defines deception as, "the act of causing someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid."  If he was presenting himself as the classical Jesus Christ, when in fact he was not, then he was engaged in deceiving her.  We have two possibilities:

a) He was not deceiving her, in which case the traditional Jesus Christ is the real god, and we have a conflict with Cathleen's NDE.  In that case we can't believe either NDE.
b) He was deceiving her, in which case, the true god is a deceiver and we can't trust what he says in either Lorraine or Cathleen's NDEs.

Which goes back to something I brought up many days ago.  Namely that you have no good reason to believe that the fantastic, God-experiencing portion of an NDE is a reflection of anything real.  It's entirely possible for the OBE portion of an NDE to reflect something real, and the more fantastic portion of an NDE to not reflect anything real.  There is no contradiction inherent in that.  The only reason you give for believing the fantastic portion of an NDE, beyond your prior beliefs, is that the experience is vivid and memorable and life changing.  But it's been pointed out to you numerous times that the vividness of the content isn't related to its truthfulness, as oxygen deprived subjects and people on ketamine have vivid experiences which are nonetheless fanciful.  When I was a child, I had a very vivid experience of a two-headed horse coming out of my bookcase and attacking me.  I don't know whether that was a dream or a hallucination, but I was terrified to be left alone in the dark in that room thereafter.  It had an enormous impact upon me.  Yet for all its vividness and effect on me, I have no hesitation in saying that I do not believe that there was a two-headed horse living in my bookcase.  And that's all the evidence you have that Cathleen's fantasy about a god and many doors was not a fantasy -- that it was vivid and had a profound effect on her.  That isn't evidence of dick squat.  Do you have any evidence to confirm that the images from Cathleen's NDE were anything but fantasy, propelled by her prior beliefs?  No, you don't.  It's known that certain themes continually crop up in dreams.  There are common themes in NDEs despite the differences, but all that shows is that as human beings we are more alike than different.  In sum, you've got nothing but your belief and the shaky claim that they couldn't be as vivid and profoundly affecting if they weren't true.  So you've got nothing.

All you show is some religious story from Matthew which has absolutely nothing to do with the spirituality that we find in the NDEs.

Bare assertions aren't evidence.  One of these days, I'm hoping you'll learn the difference.  I'm not optimistic.

Corrupted priests changed all the story about Jesus life for obvious reasons which are related to these priests hold on power.

You seem to keep forgetting that you are making a positive case here.  It's not enough simply to assert something, you need to provide evidence for the things you claim.  Do you have evidence that the priests changed the story of the life of Jesus?  Here's what actual scholarship says about the question of the reliability of the biblical texts we have now.

In 1948, some Old Testament manuscripts (along with some non-biblical writings) were found in caves near the Dead Sea which dated as early as 250 B.C.E., about a thousand years before the Masoretic text. These are known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Instead of being anywhere from 1000-3000 years from the original, these are as close as a few hundred. In the case of one of these scrolls – a copy of the book of Isaiah – the only difference between its text and the Masoretic text, was three words, and these only differed in spelling! Though over 1000 years separate these two texts, there are only three spelling changes! This shows the care with which the Masoretes and other scribes had worked.
. . . . . . . .
There are 24,000 manuscripts of the New Testament, 5,000 of which were written in the original Greek language. Of these thousands of manuscripts, no two manuscripts are identical. These differences lead to hundreds of thousands of variations. At first impression, this fact makes the Bible sound like the most unreliable book possible! These variations, however, are surprisingly not a major concern. Rather, more manuscripts lead to a greater possibility of figuring out what the original was. F.F. Bruce explained it well:

Fortunately, if the great number of MSS [manuscripts] increases the number of scribal errors, it increases proportionately the means of correcting such errors, so that the margin of doubt left in the process of recovering the exact original wording is not so large as might be feared; it is in truth remarkably small.

Is Today's Bible the Real Bible?

So despite your unsupported ranting about priests supposedly corrupting the original stories, we actually have good reason to have faith that the bible we have today is very close to the original.  So, no, you're wrong, and Christ's testimony about heaven and hell stands as recorded in the bible.

Do me a favor yog.
Next time you try to contradict NDEs use something else.
Avoid religious stories.
They carry no truth.

More bare assertions based upon your ridiculous belief that the text has been changed by corrupted priests.  I've presented evidence.  Where's yours?

If you really wish to know Jesus life you should read the The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.  

A 20th century book, written by a lone author, who claims to have accessed a supposed Akashic record.  Do you have evidence that the Akashic record exists?  No?  Then what you have is nothing more than the unverified ramblings of a lone wingnut.  Compare that to the ministry of Jesus Christ which was witnessed by many people and attested to by multiple authors.  Your preference for the Aquarian Gospel over the Holy Bible makes it pretty plain that you don't base your choice of what to believe upon reason and evidence, but rather upon whimsy and the teachings of a moronic guru.  You truly are an idiot.

2) Clairvoyance?
Again it is up to you to prove that.
You are the one who introduce the topic.  

I guess we'll just have to record this as yet another simple question that you are afraid to answer.  Do you have any evidence that OBEs are a result of consciousness leaving the body rather than clairvoyance?  I guess not.  The more you run away from such questions, the more obvious it becomes that you are full of shit.

6) People born in a certain situation clearly prove that in the universe there is order and justice.
This is also reiterated in both Cathleen and Ritchie NDEs.

It's obvious from talking to you that you frequently claim that this or that "clearly" indicates something, or that something is "obviously" true, when you don't really have the first fucking clue.  You regularly mistake your mere belief for fact, and constantly evade answering crucial questions, such as the welcome and clairvoyance questions.  So, no, you need to do more than simply claim it.  If you can't demonstrate why what you say is true, then this is just another one of your silly claims, which we can dismiss without a thought.

And no answer here.

4) Ritchie does not say that hell is for ever.
In fact he said that life is for ever.
You are the IDIOT that twist his speech so stop being an AH.  

Even more hideous than the bites and kicks they exchanged, were the sexual abuses many were performing in feverish pantomime.  Perversions I had never dreamed of were being vainly attempted all around us.  It was impossible to tell if the howls of frustration which reached us were actual sounds or only the transference of despairing thoughts. Indeed in this disembodied world it didn't seem to matter. Whatever anyone thought, however fleetingly or unwillingly, was instantly apparent to all around him, more completely than words could have expressed it, faster than sound waves could have carried it. ... What was it going to be like, I thought with sudden panic, to live forever where my most private thoughts were not private at all?


Heaven and hell : Dr. George Ritchie's near-death experience [emphasis mine]

And no answer here, either.


Despite all your boorish trash talk, you continue to avoid questions like they were kryptonite.   Why don't you just answer the questions?

[Angrboda]

P.R. Sarkar on linguistics, or, "Baba strikes out"

I have previously discussed how ridiculous things can get when linguistic interpretations are filtered through politics. And particularly so when the process is lubricated with outright insanity. And sometimes politics and insanity join into their natural composite: Religion. This time I found a holy man who, through his powers, was enabled to discourse in length on the exact science of linguistics. The result is unsurprisingly baffling.

. . . . . . .

Baba was born as Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar in Bihar, India in 1921 and died in 1990, contrary to his own preceding statements. Like most gurus he claimed to have tapped into The Divine and acquired infinite knowledge. So in between his daytime job at a railway station and authoring numerous books on yogic exercises and vegetarianism (which, by all accounts, he seemed to know a lot about), he also wrote scores of books on practically every established scientific discipline, including sociology, literature, cosmology, medicine and microbiology—which, I suspected from early on, he maybe did not know so much about.

According to the various books’ forewords, the droplets of divine wisdom from this spiritual superman would give the established scientific community food for thought for decades to come and contribute greatly to the advance of mankind. (In addition to this, he could also levitate, control the weather telepathically, and utilize X-ray vision from behind his thick-rimmed glasses.)

Statements like that do invite scrutiny, so I have taken the liberty of looking closer at one of the books defining guru Sarkar as a world class academic. As I don’t know much about cosmology or medicine (and mind you, neither do I pretend to), I chose the book Varńa Vijiṋána: The Science of Letters, published by Ananda Marga Publications in Anandanagar in 1983. The subject is linguistics, which I do know a little bit about.....

. . . . . . . .

The most picturesque etymology offered is one that I feel I have to quote in all its absurd length, so bear with me:

Many people think that the English word “mango” comes from the Tamil word máungá but it has not. (…) There is a different reason why what we call ám in Bengali is called “mango” in English. Once there was a gentleman by the name of Mr. Ricecurry who came to work in this country during the rule of the East India Company. He was the first English gentleman to bring his wife with him. Both Mr. and Mrs. Ricecurry were responsible for introducing many Bengali as well as North Indian words into the English lexicon. It is said that the night the missus heard an owl-call for the first time she was so shaken by it that she cried out several times “horrible, horrible”. She asked the maid: “Was that the sound of the famous Royal Bengal tiger of the Sundarban jungle?” The maid replied: “No, ma’am, that was an ullu (ullu in Urdu means “owl”). Then the missus said, “Oh, horrible, its name is ‘owl’?” Thus the Urdu word ullu entered the English lexicon in altered form as “owl”.

When the mango-seller would pass by the house of Mr. Ricecurry, Mrs. Ricecurry would not be able to restrain herself from buying that delicious fruit. Right away she would tell her orderly: “Man, go go …,” that is, go and call the mango-seller. The orderly started to think that perhaps the lady was calling the fruit “mango”. Thereafter on his own the orderly used to tell the missus “mango, mango” when he would see the mango-seller. In time this “mango” became the English synonym for ám. (pp. 48-49)

I do not know if this is a common myth (or perhaps a simple pun) in India. But the notion that the first British woman to visit India would be called “Mrs. Ricecurry” and had never heard of owls is simply ridiculous.

As for “mango”, the first known use of the word in English was in 1582—years before the East India Company was founded. According to both the Oxford and the Merriam-Webster dictionaries, the word entered English via Portuguese traders, who picked it up from Tamil or Malayalam. The two are closely related Dravidian languages, and the original māngāy means “the fruit or seed (kāy) of the mān tree”. It has nothing to do with men going anywhere.

Finally, a religious book about mangos

[Little Rik]

Every time I read your posts I have to realize that you reach new and new lows.
How low can you get yog?
You already float in the mental sewer.  

Or you have the brain of a 5 years old that can not understand much or you are so dishonest that in order not to sink even further you restore to dirty games such as creating an artificial case saying that that is what I said and then expect me to give evidence.

Why it is so hard to admit that you failed and you are mentally bankrupt?  

The more you trash talk, the more I laugh at you.

Here I copy and past the same answer once again.

The same answer that didn't answer the question before!  You go to great lengths to avoid answering a simple question.

Well, if you're not going to answer how we know that the welcome is over, then I guess we never know that the welcome is over, and every last moment of every NDE is nothing but a welcome that reflects the person's prior beliefs.  Apparently, we never do get to anything 'real'.

1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.

What's really stupid is you thinking that this answers the question I asked.  It doesn't, so re-pasting it is pointless.

1) About your new NDE from Lorraine Tutmarc.

No, it does not contradict Cathleen NDE at all.
You are the idiot that didn't get it.
You haven't showed any contradiction in fact.

A possible eternity in a river of death isn't inconsistent with an NDE in which the only two alternatives are reincarnation and staying with a wonderful god?  A traditional Christ figure who talks about being crucified for man's sins isn't inconsistent with a god figure that offers reincarnation?  How stupid can you be?  The figure in Lorraine's NDE is clearly Jesus Christ and despite her claim to not remember much about her Sunday school experiences, she is clearly able to recognize him for who he is.  As Lorraine says, "He knew everything I had ever done, and everything I would ever do in the future, both bad and good," so he would know that she would recognize him as Jesus Christ.  Unless of course, by presenting himself as Jesus Christ he was deceiving her.  Merriam-Webster defines deception as, "the act of causing someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid."  If he was presenting himself as the classical Jesus Christ, when in fact he was not, then he was engaged in deceiving her.  We have two possibilities:

a) He was not deceiving her, in which case the traditional Jesus Christ is the real god, and we have a conflict with Cathleen's NDE.  In that case we can't believe either NDE.
b) He was deceiving her, in which case, the true god is a deceiver and we can't trust what he says in either Lorraine or Cathleen's NDEs.

Which goes back to something I brought up many days ago.  Namely that you have no good reason to believe that the fantastic, God-experiencing portion of an NDE is a reflection of anything real.  It's entirely possible for the OBE portion of an NDE to reflect something real, and the more fantastic portion of an NDE to not reflect anything real.  There is no contradiction inherent in that.  The only reason you give for believing the fantastic portion of an NDE, beyond your prior beliefs, is that the experience is vivid and memorable and life changing.  But it's been pointed out to you numerous times that the vividness of the content isn't related to its truthfulness, as oxygen deprived subjects and people on ketamine have vivid experiences which are nonetheless fanciful.  When I was a child, I had a very vivid experience of a two-headed horse coming out of my bookcase and attacking me.  I don't know whether that was a dream or a hallucination, but I was terrified to be left alone in the dark in that room thereafter.  It had an enormous impact upon me.  Yet for all its vividness and effect on me, I have no hesitation in saying that I do not believe that there was a two-headed horse living in my bookcase.  And that's all the evidence you have that Cathleen's fantasy about a god and many doors was not a fantasy -- that it was vivid and had a profound effect on her.  That isn't evidence of dick squat.  Do you have any evidence to confirm that the images from Cathleen's NDE were anything but fantasy, propelled by her prior beliefs?  No, you don't.  It's known that certain themes continually crop up in dreams.  There are common themes in NDEs despite the differences, but all that shows is that as human beings we are more alike than different.  In sum, you've got nothing but your belief and the shaky claim that they couldn't be as vivid and profoundly affecting if they weren't true.  So you've got nothing.

All you show is some religious story from Matthew which has absolutely nothing to do with the spirituality that we find in the NDEs.

Bare assertions aren't evidence.  One of these days, I'm hoping you'll learn the difference.  I'm not optimistic.

Corrupted priests changed all the story about Jesus life for obvious reasons which are related to these priests hold on power.

You seem to keep forgetting that you are making a positive case here.  It's not enough simply to assert something, you need to provide evidence for the things you claim.  Do you have evidence that the priests changed the story of the life of Jesus?  Here's what actual scholarship says about the question of the reliability of the biblical texts we have now.

In 1948, some Old Testament manuscripts (along with some non-biblical writings) were found in caves near the Dead Sea which dated as early as 250 B.C.E., about a thousand years before the Masoretic text. These are known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Instead of being anywhere from 1000-3000 years from the original, these are as close as a few hundred. In the case of one of these scrolls – a copy of the book of Isaiah – the only difference between its text and the Masoretic text, was three words, and these only differed in spelling! Though over 1000 years separate these two texts, there are only three spelling changes! This shows the care with which the Masoretes and other scribes had worked.
. . . . . . . .
There are 24,000 manuscripts of the New Testament, 5,000 of which were written in the original Greek language. Of these thousands of manuscripts, no two manuscripts are identical. These differences lead to hundreds of thousands of variations. At first impression, this fact makes the Bible sound like the most unreliable book possible! These variations, however, are surprisingly not a major concern. Rather, more manuscripts lead to a greater possibility of figuring out what the original was. F.F. Bruce explained it well:

Fortunately, if the great number of MSS [manuscripts] increases the number of scribal errors, it increases proportionately the means of correcting such errors, so that the margin of doubt left in the process of recovering the exact original wording is not so large as might be feared; it is in truth remarkably small.

Is Today's Bible the Real Bible?

So despite your unsupported ranting about priests supposedly corrupting the original stories, we actually have good reason to have faith that the bible we have today is very close to the original.  So, no, you're wrong, and Christ's testimony about heaven and hell stands as recorded in the bible.

Do me a favor yog.
Next time you try to contradict NDEs use something else.
Avoid religious stories.
They carry no truth.

More bare assertions based upon your ridiculous belief that the text has been changed by corrupted priests.  I've presented evidence.  Where's yours?

If you really wish to know Jesus life you should read the The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.  

A 20th century book, written by a lone author, who claims to have accessed a supposed Akashic record.  Do you have evidence that the Akashic record exists?  No?  Then what you have is nothing more than the unverified ramblings of a lone wingnut.  Compare that to the ministry of Jesus Christ which was witnessed by many people and attested to by multiple authors.  Your preference for the Aquarian Gospel over the Holy Bible makes it pretty plain that you don't base your choice of what to believe upon reason and evidence, but rather upon whimsy and the teachings of a moronic guru.  You truly are an idiot.

2) Clairvoyance?
Again it is up to you to prove that.
You are the one who introduce the topic.  

I guess we'll just have to record this as yet another simple question that you are afraid to answer.  Do you have any evidence that OBEs are a result of consciousness leaving the body rather than clairvoyance?  I guess not.  The more you run away from such questions, the more obvious it becomes that you are full of shit.

It's obvious from talking to you that you frequently claim that this or that "clearly" indicates something, or that something is "obviously" true, when you don't really have the first fucking clue.  You regularly mistake your mere belief for fact, and constantly evade answering crucial questions, such as the welcome and clairvoyance questions.  So, no, you need to do more than simply claim it.  If you can't demonstrate why what you say is true, then this is just another one of your silly claims, which we can dismiss without a thought.

And no answer here.
And no answer here, either.
Despite all your boorish trash talk, you continue to avoid questions like they were kryptonite.   Why don't you just answer the questions?

God didn't write the Bible therefore whatever is written in the Bible can not be related to Him as evidence of his words.
The Bible may even contain truth in it but when the priests tell us that there is an eternal hell we have to deduce that that is not coming from God Bible or not Bible.
Hell is a failure and hate but failures and hate do not belong to God so a permanent hell can not exist.

As several NDEs show there is a temporary mental hell for those who created a bad karma for themselves but nobody indicate that this hell is permanent.


I found completely laughable to see you say..........Compare that to the ministry of Jesus Christ which was witnessed by many people and attested to by multiple authors...........when most atheists say that there is no credible witness to Jesus life beside the fact that atheists even deny that Jesus existed in the first place.
You are an absolute joke yog.  


God is not deceiving anybody.
Beside the various forms that God take in the various NDEs also Shiva, Krishna and Jesus (among the most known) are said to be the incarnation of God.
Why should these incarnation of God be deceiving to us?
In every age and in every situation God will take the form most suitable in that particular situation where people find most easy to understand Him.


The difference between your experience in which you did see two headed horses and Cathleen experience is that you never die physically speaking while Cathleen did so your consciousness never left your body while Cathleen consciousness did therefore your experience is related to an hallucination which has zero to do with a real NDE.  



Oh, in case you are still waiting for an answer to your question about the end of the welcome here we are once again.


The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.

[Whateverist]

Good morning, Rik. How are your chakras? If you really, really dedicate yourself to doing yoga and passing on all the suggestive bits your swami shared with you, I'm sure your enlightenment won't be far away. Then you will have confirmation that all your time here has been well spent. Or not.

[The Grand Nudger]

Apparently you seem to know that these good people never did anything wrong in past lives, do you?
Gee, you must be a mind reader.
Do you charge any money for reading minds?  

One wonders how many dogs you must have kicked in your past life to be born into the "certain situation" of pig-ignorance. Maybe that;s an unanswerable question..but, should you ever find yourself assaulted or subjected to ethnic cleansing.... as so many people have been before you.. just remember, you deserve it.

[Angrboda]

---

God didn't write the Bible therefore whatever is written in the Bible can not be related to Him as evidence of his words.
The Bible may even contain truth in it but when the priests tell us that there is an eternal hell we have to deduce that that is not coming from God Bible or not Bible.
Hell is a failure and hate but failures and hate do not belong to God so a permanent hell can not exist.

As several NDEs show there is a temporary mental hell for those who created a bad karma for themselves but nobody indicate that this hell is permanent.


I found completely laughable to see you say..........Compare that to the ministry of Jesus Christ which was witnessed by many people and attested to by multiple authors...........when most atheists say that there is no credible witness to Jesus life beside the fact that atheists even deny that Jesus existed in the first place.
You are an absolute joke yog.  


God is not deceiving anybody.
Beside the various forms that God take in the various NDEs also Shiva, Krishna and Jesus (among the most known) are said to be the incarnation of God.
Why should these incarnation of God be deceiving to us?
In every age and in every situation God will take the form most suitable in that particular situation where people find most easy to understand Him.


The difference between your experience in which you did see two headed horses and Cathleen experience is that you never die physically speaking while Cathleen did so your consciousness never left your body while Cathleen consciousness did therefore your experience is related to an hallucination which has zero to do with a real NDE.  



Oh, in case you are still waiting for an answer to your question about the end of the welcome here we are once again.


The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.

---

Heh. Nothing but more empty assertions from you. I've come to expect no better from you.

You've had over two weeks to provide evidence of karma and reincarnation, and what have we seen?

No examples of anybody who has actually been reincarnated.

No evidence of any karma or karmic law.

No actual evidence of any God.

Instead, we've seen you claim that the fantastic experiences of people like Cathleen are real. And what evidence do you bring to show that they are real? Not a damn thing.

You have utterly failed to provide any evidence for the evolution of consciousness in a thread that you, yourself, started on it.

That's pathetic.

Anyway, I've accomplished what I set out to accomplish, and now I am done.

Have a nice day.

[Little Rik]

---

God didn't write the Bible therefore whatever is written in the Bible can not be related to Him as evidence of his words.
The Bible may even contain truth in it but when the priests tell us that there is an eternal hell we have to deduce that that is not coming from God Bible or not Bible.
Hell is a failure and hate but failures and hate do not belong to God so a permanent hell can not exist.

As several NDEs show there is a temporary mental hell for those who created a bad karma for themselves but nobody indicate that this hell is permanent.


I found completely laughable to see you say..........Compare that to the ministry of Jesus Christ which was witnessed by many people and attested to by multiple authors...........when most atheists say that there is no credible witness to Jesus life beside the fact that atheists even deny that Jesus existed in the first place.
You are an absolute joke yog.  


God is not deceiving anybody.
Beside the various forms that God take in the various NDEs also Shiva, Krishna and Jesus (among the most known) are said to be the incarnation of God.
Why should these incarnation of God be deceiving to us?
In every age and in every situation God will take the form most suitable in that particular situation where people find most easy to understand Him.


The difference between your experience in which you did see two headed horses and Cathleen experience is that you never die physically speaking while Cathleen did so your consciousness never left your body while Cathleen consciousness did therefore your experience is related to an hallucination which has zero to do with a real NDE.  



Oh, in case you are still waiting for an answer to your question about the end of the welcome here we are once again.


The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.

---

Heh.  Nothing but more empty assertions from you.  I've come to expect no better from you.

You've had over two weeks to provide evidence of karma and reincarnation, and what have we seen?

No examples of anybody who has actually been reincarnated.

No evidence of any karma or karmic law.

No actual evidence of any God.

Instead, we've seen you claim that the fantastic experiences of people like Cathleen are real.  And what evidence do you bring to show that they are real?  Not a damn thing.

You have utterly failed to provide any evidence for the evolution of consciousness in a thread that you, yourself, started on it.

That's pathetic.
Anyway, I've accomplished what I set out to accomplish, and now I am done.  
Have a nice day.

You accomplished what?  

You were not even able to answer any of the 7 questions that I put in first page of the thread.
Are you kidding me?  

What about the NDEs?
When it is said white you understand black and when it said black you understand white.

Evidence for the progress of the consciousness is all around us.
Even the grass has consciousness but what's the point to discuss with a dogmatic fool.

It is absolutely bizarre to hear from you that you do not deny the NDEs but at the same time you argue that there is no evidence for them.
Your continuous contradictions are out of control yog.

Never mind.
Next life maybe.  
Have a nice day anyway.  

---

Good morning, Rik.  How are your chakras?  If you really, really dedicate yourself to doing yoga and passing on all the suggestive bits your swami shared with you, I'm sure your enlightenment won't be far away.  Then you will have confirmation that all your time here has been well spent.  Or not.

Let us look at your signature.
It say...............'True' belief is drunk with celebrating certainty, no further quest is required...........

I guess you must be talking about atheists true beliefs.

The consciousness is a product of the brain.........or........when we die is all over.......or .............the universe can well do without a God because entropy can do the job.........

Is this what you mean in your signature Whatever?  

---

Apparently you seem to know that these good people never did anything wrong in past lives, do you?
Gee, you must be a mind reader.
Do you charge any money for reading minds?  

One wonders how many dogs you must have kicked in your past life to be born into the "certain situation" of pig-ignorance.  Maybe that;s an unanswerable question..but, should you ever find yourself assaulted or subjected to ethnic cleansing.... as so many people have been before you.. just remember, you deserve it.

Ok Khem, I will remember that.  

By the way on what basis are you deducing that I will experience bad news in the future?  

[Aegon]

We need to remove some of these emojis