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My new support for hedonism
#21
RE: My new support for hedonism
Dear Transcended Dimensions

Your "new support" for hedonism, my ass. Lol... literally your entire post history on these forums has been your obsession with feeling good=good and feeling bad=bad. I wouldn't say I disagree but when I did try to straighten you out about some things it was like talking to a brick wall.

Now, of course, when other people talk to me it's like talking to a brick wall from their perspective too. But the difference is... I, Hammy, am a highly logical rambling fuckwit whereas you, Transcended Dimensions, are a highly confused rambling fuckwit.
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#22
RE: My new support for hedonism
(March 4, 2018 at 8:59 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: I have revised my opening statement and I will just post it here:

Opening Statement/Summary:  I might have actually been wrong when I said that our basic emotions are a sense in my book. But I still think they are a feeling version of value and that they are the chemical message to our brains that things are good, beautiful, bad, horrible, or disgusting. Our morality and intellect alone cannot be any real message of value to our brains. It can only give us the thought of certain values and the belief that our lives have value, but not any real message of value to our brains.  Having the real message of value to our brains is how we as human beings perceive real value in regards to certain things, moments, people, and situations.  Without that real message, then we can only perceive the idea of value, but not any real value.  

Thus, we would not be able to see any real value in our lives and we could only just have ideas in our minds of our lives having value.  But humanity is currently being fooled into believing that the ideas themselves are the real perception of value when they never were.  This is what I discuss in this packet.  Lastly, if we live in a spiritual universe rather than a purely naturalistic one, then our basic emotions would be where our spirits/souls get the real message that things have value and worth in our lives.  Our basic emotions would, thus, be the soul's inner light and inner darkness.  The inner light is the message that things are good and beautiful while the inner darkness would be the message that things are bad, horrible, and disgusting.

How I feel is the only thing that determines the value of my life.  As long as I feel pleasant emotions such as happiness, joy, excitement, and beauty from things, moments, and situations, then I perceive those things, moments, and situations as something profoundly joyful, good, and beautiful.  As long as I cannot feel any unpleasant emotions such as misery, disgust, hopelessness, and rage in regards to things in my life, then I cannot perceive any horrible or disgusting value in regards to anything in my life.  Thus, even the most tragic event in my life such as the loss of my mother would not bother me at all as long as I could not feel any sadness or despair from her loss.  I need to feel unpleasant emotions in order to perceive/experience the tragedy and horror of her loss.  

Sure, I could have the idea in my mind that her loss was something horrible.  But I would not be able to perceive that horrible value without my unpleasant emotions which is why her loss would not matter to me.  Likewise, I need to feel pleasant emotions in order to perceive/experience the joy, beauty, and good value of things in this life.  This personal experience clearly tells me that emotions are the real message of value to our brains and that our morality, character, and intellect alone cannot give our brains that message.  

I am led to believe that other people are in denial of their personal experience to conclude otherwise and this is what I further expand on and talk about in the Q&A Section.  I have had blissful dreams where I have felt profoundly beautiful bliss.  It was something profoundly moving.  In other words, this blissful state brought my life profound joy and beauty.  

I cannot possibly fathom my morality, character, and intellect alone yielding such a profoundly beautiful and joyful experience in my life.  Thus, this is another reason why I conclude that no mindset or attitude alone without the pleasant emotions can be any real source of beauty and joy in my life.  It is another reason why I conclude that other people have to be delusional to somehow think that values founded upon morality, character, and intellect are real values.  

My positive emotions are what make things, moments, and situations in my life come alive in beauty and joy while my negative emotions make things, moments, and situations come alive in horror, disgust, and tragedy.  In addition, I need my positive emotions in order to like and enjoy things in my life such as my hobbies and certain television shows such as anime.  But, as I explain soon, positive emotions are very fleeting things.  It is very unfortunate that the only thing that can make our lives good and beautiful (our positive emotions) is something very fleeting.


How much do I owe you?




(March 5, 2018 at 10:49 am)robvalue Wrote: How about reducing suffering? I'd say that's a good thing too.


Fucking good!
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#23
RE: My new support for hedonism
this transcended dimensions user is intrinsically repetitive
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#24
RE: My new support for hedonism
Proof That Our Emotions Are The Perception Of Value:  I talk about how our emotions allow us to perceive value.  Many people would disagree with this idea because many people think that emotions are just simply emotions (i.e. how we feel about things) and nothing more.  But I think this example I am going to give you might prove how our emotions really are the perception of value.  When you, for example, feel fear from being in a dangerous situation, that feeling of fear is a chemical message to the brain which is telling your brain something.  It tells your brain "THREAT!!!" or "DANGER!!!"  This would be no different than your brain getting the message "IT MATTERS!!!"

When something matters to you, this means it is something good or bad from your perspective.  For example, if the loss of your loved one mattered to you or if getting a new movie is something that mattered to you, then this means those things had value from your perspective.  Therefore, when you feel fear, that is no different than your brain getting the message that this dangerous situation you felt fear from was something bad.  So, I can honestly conclude that emotions are the message of value to our brains.  But since people are in denial of this, then they are in denial of their own emotions.  That is why I do not trust humanity because people are often times in denial and delusional.

Humanity currently believes in this idea that emotions being the source of value in our lives is for the weak-minded and that the real value comes about through our intellect, character, and morals.  I think humanity is also in denial when it comes to their moral and intellectual based values because I don't think these are real values.  In essence, my views oppose the vast majority of humanity.  I think the emotional values are the real values while the values founded upon morality, intellect, and character are the fake values.  But humanity thinks the opposite.  Humanity thinks I am the one who is delusional and in denial and I think it is humanity that is delusional and in denial.
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#25
RE: My new support for hedonism
If you just changed the "the" to an "a" you'd finally be on to something..but I guess you wouldn't have anything left to say at that point.

As it stands..however...and since you've introduced the possibility that one set of values between the two is somehow "the fake set"..then a person is free to posit that emotional values are the fake set..more accurately, our emotions are the procedurally formed behavioral response -to- The Real Values™. The intellectual, moral, and character ones.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


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#26
RE: My new support for hedonism
(March 16, 2018 at 10:55 am)Khemikal Wrote: If you just changed the "the" to an "a" you'd finally be on to something..but I guess you wouldn't have anything left to say at that point.

As it stands..however...and since you've introduced the possibility that one set of values between the two is somehow "the fake set"..then a person is free to posit that emotional values are the fake set..more accurately, our emotions are the procedurally formed behavioral response -to- The Real Values™.  The intellectual, moral, and character ones.

I respect your views.  But, according to my view, our thoughts just give us ideas of things such as the idea of values, sounds, smells, hunger, thirst, and colors.  But our thoughts in of themselves do not give our lives any real form of those things.  It is only when a thought sends a signal to the audio and visual cortex that you perceive real sounds and colors.  Likewise, it is only when a thought of your favorite food or drink sends the signal to make you feel hungry and thirsty that you then have real hunger and thirst.  The same thing applies to having value in our lives.  It is only once a certain thought sends the signal to those areas of the brain that make you feel fear, sexually aroused, or excited to get a new movie that you have real value in your life since you would be perceiving real value in regards to things, moments, and situations.  But if you were depressed and no thought could make you feel excited or happy, then you wouldn't be able to perceive any real good or beautiful value in your life. This is an idea of mine and I have written an entire essay on it. That is why I have given others the link to it in my opening post.
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#27
RE: My new support for hedonism
Who cares about whether or not you respect them, or what is or is not according to your views?  Not me..therefore the True Value™ of your views is zero.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


Reply
#28
RE: My new support for hedonism
(March 4, 2018 at 8:59 pm)Transcended Dimensions Wrote: I have revised my opening statement and I will just post it here:

Opening Statement/Summary:  I might have actually been wrong when I said that our basic emotions are a sense in my book. But I still think they are a feeling version of value and that they are the chemical message to our brains that things are good, beautiful, bad, horrible, or disgusting. Our morality and intellect alone cannot be any real message of value to our brains. It can only give us the thought of certain values and the belief that our lives have value, but not any real message of value to our brains.  Having the real message of value to our brains is how we as human beings perceive real value in regards to certain things, moments, people, and situations.  Without that real message, then we can only perceive the idea of value, but not any real value.  

Thus, we would not be able to see any real value in our lives and we could only just have ideas in our minds of our lives having value.  But humanity is currently being fooled into believing that the ideas themselves are the real perception of value when they never were.  This is what I discuss in this packet.  Lastly, if we live in a spiritual universe rather than a purely naturalistic one, then our basic emotions would be where our spirits/souls get the real message that things have value and worth in our lives.  Our basic emotions would, thus, be the soul's inner light and inner darkness.  The inner light is the message that things are good and beautiful while the inner darkness would be the message that things are bad, horrible, and disgusting.

How I feel is the only thing that determines the value of my life.  As long as I feel pleasant emotions such as happiness, joy, excitement, and beauty from things, moments, and situations, then I perceive those things, moments, and situations as something profoundly joyful, good, and beautiful.  As long as I cannot feel any unpleasant emotions such as misery, disgust, hopelessness, and rage in regards to things in my life, then I cannot perceive any horrible or disgusting value in regards to anything in my life.  Thus, even the most tragic event in my life such as the loss of my mother would not bother me at all as long as I could not feel any sadness or despair from her loss.  I need to feel unpleasant emotions in order to perceive/experience the tragedy and horror of her loss.  

Sure, I could have the idea in my mind that her loss was something horrible.  But I would not be able to perceive that horrible value without my unpleasant emotions which is why her loss would not matter to me.  Likewise, I need to feel pleasant emotions in order to perceive/experience the joy, beauty, and good value of things in this life.  This personal experience clearly tells me that emotions are the real message of value to our brains and that our morality, character, and intellect alone cannot give our brains that message.  

I am led to believe that other people are in denial of their personal experience to conclude otherwise and this is what I further expand on and talk about in the Q&A Section.  I have had blissful dreams where I have felt profoundly beautiful bliss.  It was something profoundly moving.  In other words, this blissful state brought my life profound joy and beauty.  

I cannot possibly fathom my morality, character, and intellect alone yielding such a profoundly beautiful and joyful experience in my life.  Thus, this is another reason why I conclude that no mindset or attitude alone without the pleasant emotions can be any real source of beauty and joy in my life.  It is another reason why I conclude that other people have to be delusional to somehow think that values founded upon morality, character, and intellect are real values.  

My positive emotions are what make things, moments, and situations in my life come alive in beauty and joy while my negative emotions make things, moments, and situations come alive in horror, disgust, and tragedy.  In addition, I need my positive emotions in order to like and enjoy things in my life such as my hobbies and certain television shows such as anime.  But, as I explain soon, positive emotions are very fleeting things.  It is very unfortunate that the only thing that can make our lives good and beautiful (our positive emotions) is something very fleeting.


Not too long, still not going to read it.
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#29
RE: My new support for hedonism
The essential contradiction is that peace is gained through moral acts often, that aren't selfish in nature.

That love appreciates others not for the sake of benefiting oneself, but through believe they ought to be appreciated or their action (states that lead to something outwardly good) ought to be appreciated.

Peace is a noble goal for humans to achieve, but it requires moral satisfaction with oneself. And so you can make the standards purely about bliss and peace feeling, but the problem is bliss and peace depends on moral standards and the latter if hedonism is the model would be circular way back to establishing it.

Of course, I think doing actions to make yourself at peace are noble and good, but a lot of those actions we search it's a side effect we feel peace and rewarded with happiness we do good.

And here comes the issue of honor. There is honorable way to seek happiness and dishonorable way. The latter is often destructive not only to oneself, but to others, and the world even at large.
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

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