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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 4:36 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 3:10 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: It's called a rhetorical device.
A rhetorical device which refutes your own argument? Ok........
Quote:But we couldn't really see it for what it was until the 20th century... it's not like anyone can look up in the sky and see Andromeda. You need a powerful telescope or it looks like a small blur.By the time we figured out what it was, science had already figured out the speed of light. Anyone in their right mind would conclude that the galaxy was (at least) millions of years old.
No, someone in their right mind could just as easily conclude that God created the universe with light already reaching earth.
Quote:(In fact, it's billions of years old.) It has led tons and tons of people to reason that the universe is far older than 6,000 years.
Yes, you can conclude that as well. It all depends on your premises.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 4:44 pm
Quote: No, someone in their right mind could just as easily conclude that God created the universe with light already reaching earth.
If someone was as fucking stupid as you, maybe?
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 4:58 pm
(This post was last modified: March 13, 2018 at 5:21 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:No, someone in their right mind could just as easily conclude that God created the universe with light already reaching earth.
If they were a denialist loon desperately looking for excuses to reinforce an already held convictions in the face of all evidence and reason . In other words creationism in a nutshell . No honest, sane , knowledgeable person can accept creationism . It's on par with holocaust denialism. and all of it's arguments are motivated skepticism or attempts at explaining away clear evidence .
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 4:36 pm)alpha male Wrote: No, someone in their right mind could just as easily conclude that God created the universe with light already reaching earth.
Why would a god create random clumps of photons with different amounts of red shift to create an illusion of faraway stars, rather than just creating the stars at varying distances and letting them come "on" when their light did reach Earth? Daft way of doing things (and a missed artistic opportunity too).
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:01 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Astreja Wrote: Why would a god create random clumps of photons
Why do you say random?
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: March 13, 2018 at 7:20 pm by Amarok.)
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:17 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 7:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: (March 13, 2018 at 6:33 pm)Astreja Wrote: Why would a god create random clumps of photons
Why do you say random?
Why would you say otherwise?
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:21 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 7:17 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: (March 13, 2018 at 7:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: Why do you say random?
Why would you say otherwise? Note Beta's dodge
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:45 pm
This isn't even a dodge.
Alpha, if God created the universe as you say he did, he's no better than Descartes' evil demon. To reason things as you have is two steps from accepting the flat earth. (You do accept the spherical earth model, right?) It's not just God stretching the light so we can see things. That answer doesn't work because, as RR pointed out here, that would mean that we are seeing stars die that never existed in the first place. Do you see how little sense that makes?
Look at it this way. One of us is right in this scenario. I think you should at least do some independent research here, if not enroll in an online astronomy course. There are plenty of people who reject the 6,000 year old model-- even Biblical inerrantists. So it doesn't even contradict the Bible to see the universe as older, at least according to many, many people. Plenty of people reject young earth creationism and are devout Christians.
I could sit here and give you information that proves my case all day, but I think you should take the time to learn the science yourself.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 13, 2018 at 7:59 pm
(March 13, 2018 at 12:48 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (March 13, 2018 at 12:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: OP: For the true YEC believer is there any debunk that would change their mind? I've talked to a few and usually get "god made it that way to begin with". Sometimes they include "because it's a test of faith".
I'm not sure that any science based position will be seriously considered by most YEC's. Their mental world would crumble.
No.
Creationists, especially YECs, are the most intellectually dishonest group I have ever encountered.
I would not say they are intellectuals 
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