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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 8:09 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 8:28 am by I_am_not_mafia.)
(March 15, 2018 at 8:33 am)Huggy74 Wrote: You'd make an excellent argument, IF it wasn't based on false equivalence...
Says the person who can't tell the difference between the evolution of a language and the evolution of religious belief.
(March 15, 2018 at 1:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am not a yec. My proposition is that at some point during human evolution from apes, our brains developed just enough for moral free will (ie, moral responsibility/culpability).
I accept Adam and Eve having been real people, as very early humans with moral responsibility for wrong doings. But obviously I don't believe in the literal story, where there was a paradise garden with a snake and a forbidden apple.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 9:01 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 9:03 am by The Grand Nudger.)
A catholic cannot believe that mans "moral sense" developed. They must believe that man, and our "moral sense", was specially created in the image of god. A person who calls themselves catholic but doesn't believe in the catholic profession of faith..can, ofc, say and believe whatever they want.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s2c1p6.htm
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 9:08 am
I must say, though, that in thological terms YECs are on firmer grounds than non-YEC christians. Because if you're going to accept the bible as valid you've got to accept all of it.
Otherwise you quickly run into CLs muddled mess of "I like this bit therefore it is true, I don't like that bit therefore it is false".
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 9:22 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 9:25 am by Huggy Bear.)
(March 16, 2018 at 8:09 am)Mathilda Wrote: (March 15, 2018 at 8:33 am)Huggy74 Wrote: You'd make an excellent argument, IF it wasn't based on false equivalence...
Says the person who can't tell the difference between the evolution of a language and the evolution of religious belief.
(March 15, 2018 at 1:00 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am not a yec. My proposition is that at some point during human evolution from apes, our brains developed just enough for moral free will (ie, moral responsibility/culpability).
I accept Adam and Eve having been real people, as very early humans with moral responsibility for wrong doings. But obviously I don't believe in the literal story, where there was a paradise garden with a snake and a forbidden apple.
I don't believe Frans De Waal is saying what you think he's saying...
Animals have no conception of right and wrong.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 9:26 am
(March 16, 2018 at 9:22 am)Huggy74 Wrote: (March 16, 2018 at 8:09 am)Mathilda Wrote:
I don't believe Frans De Waal is saying what you think he's saying...
Animals have no conception of right and wrong.
Explain.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 9:30 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 9:41 am by Mister Agenda.)
Is there a term for 'if you don't care, why are you arguing with me?' Is it just another way of saying 'you've got me whupped but I'm not going to admit it?', or is it an actual fallacy?
alpha male Wrote:Um...Khemikal said "we," which opens it up to others. Just sayin'. 
Post #5 of that thread, the OP (Chimp) says he really doesn't give a shit and the title was click bait. I know you didn't just get to the internet yesterday with the impression that everyone is serious about everything, or won't argue a point ad nauseum just because they think they're right.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 10:08 am
(March 16, 2018 at 9:08 am)Wololo Wrote: I must say, though, that in thological terms YECs are on firmer grounds than non-YEC christians. Because if you're going to accept the bible as valid you've got to accept all of it.
Otherwise you quickly run into CLs muddled mess of "I like this bit therefore it is true, I don't like that bit therefore it is false".
But they're ALL cafeteria christians when it comes down to it. There's something for everybody to choke on in the Bible.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 10:53 am by Huggy Bear.)
(March 16, 2018 at 9:26 am)Mathilda Wrote: (March 16, 2018 at 9:22 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I don't believe Frans De Waal is saying what you think he's saying...
Animals have no conception of right and wrong.
Explain.
From an article written by de Waal
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...thout-god/
Quote:At the same time, however, I am reluctant to call a chimpanzee a “moral being.” This is because sentiments do not suffice. We strive for a logically coherent system, and have debates about how the death penalty fits arguments for the sanctity of life, or whether an unchosen sexual orientation can be wrong. These debates are uniquely human. We have no evidence that other animals judge the appropriateness of actions that do not affect themselves. The great pioneer of morality research, the Finn Edward Westermarck, explained what makes the moral emotions special: “Moral emotions are disconnected from one’s immediate situation: they deal with good and bad at a more abstract, disinterested level.” This is what sets human morality apart: a move towards universal standards combined with an elaborate system of justification, monitoring and punishment.
From an article written about de Waal
https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/0...use-of-god
Quote:Further, de Waal doesn't go so far as to equate animal goodness with morality. "I am reluctant to call a chimpanzee a 'moral being'," he writes. "There is little evidence that other animals judge the appropriateness of actions that do not directly affect themselves."
What sets human morality apart, he believes, depends on our greater powers of abstraction, and involves "a move toward universal standards combined with an elaborate system of justification, monitoring, and punishment. At this point, religion comes in."
A scientist and non-believer, de Waal isn't saying here that religion is required for human morality, only that the two have been entwined throughout human history. Since I have wearied of the Richard Dawkins school of religion-bashing, in which belief is equated with dim-wittedness, I can only applaud de Waal's approach, as when he writes, "The enemy of science is not religion. Religion comes in endless shapes and forms ... . The true enemy is the substitution of thought, reflection, and curiosity with dogma."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_de_Waal
Quote:His 2013 book The Bonobo and the Atheist examines human behavior through the eyes of a primatologist, and explores to what extent God and religion are needed for human morality. The main conclusion is that morality comes from within, and is part of human nature. The role of religion is secondary.
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 1:54 pm
(March 16, 2018 at 9:08 am)Wololo Wrote: I must say, though, that in thological terms YECs are on firmer grounds than non-YEC christians. Because if you're going to accept the bible as valid you've got to accept all of it.
Otherwise you quickly run into CLs muddled mess of "I like this bit therefore it is true, I don't like that bit therefore it is false".
I accept all of the Bible, but I’m not a YEC
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 16, 2018 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 2:35 pm by Whateverist.)
(March 16, 2018 at 2:38 am)robvalue Wrote: (March 15, 2018 at 11:18 am)Khemikal Wrote: "You do too care, you do too!"
Lolnope.
I can accept that you do, that sin weighs on your mind and you live in guilt....that your panties would be hopelessly wrinkled up if you were me in all ways but the status of your belief in pixies and spirit blemishes. Because you experience it, you imagine that others do as well..and I can understand why you would think that. My panties, however, are doing just fine..despite whatever yours would be doing in my shoes.
I can't understand what this whole, "you just want to sin" thing is supposed to mean. I suppose it's a total failure to be able to see our side. Or projection. What they really mean is, "I just want to sin". They want to do those things they see atheists do, but they can't. (Most likely they do them anyway but feel really guilty about them.)
It makes as much sense as me saying, "you just want to upset Darth Vader".
Like we're really going to waste one second worrying about their hypothetical but incoherent supernatural consequence in deciding how to live. Always surprising to learn how inherently irresistible they think vile acts must be that it should require extreme measures to overcome. Must be unpleasant to live with that mindset.
(March 16, 2018 at 9:22 am)Huggy74 Wrote: (March 16, 2018 at 8:09 am)Mathilda Wrote: Says the person who can't tell the difference between the evolution of a language and the evolution of religious belief.
I don't believe Frans De Waal is saying what you think he's saying...
Animals have no conception of right and wrong.
Primarily because they do not share our capacity for propositional thought. What that tells us is that propositional reflection on morality is secondary. Personally I find an obsession with right and wrong to be a waste of time beyond childrearing and development into young adulthood. Of course xtians are afraid of the mammal within.
(March 16, 2018 at 1:54 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (March 16, 2018 at 9:08 am)Wololo Wrote: I must say, though, that in thological terms YECs are on firmer grounds than non-YEC christians. Because if you're going to accept the bible as valid you've got to accept all of it.
Otherwise you quickly run into CLs muddled mess of "I like this bit therefore it is true, I don't like that bit therefore it is false".
I accept all of the Bible, but I’m not a YEC
Hallelujah! I always prefer to share society with better theists. If you can't make it all the way to secular, at least work for a theism which maximizes your humanity.
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