Apologists that may be lying

[Chad32]

There are people who drink the koolaid, and honestly believe the stuff they're telling people. However it is inevitable that they will find out their information is dubious at best, and either abandon it, or become dishonest. Anyone who has done it for long enough is either willfully ignorant, or dishonest.

[AFTT47]

The thing with apologists is, they know the arguments too well to be arguing as poorly as they do. I'm sure there are a few honest apologists out there, but by and large, they are little more than sleazy attorneys. 

For instance, Answers in Genesis keeps pushing the way-past-debunked "evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics" argument when they know damn well it's horseshit. They have to know. The first 9 out of ten google hits will lay it out plainly. The reason they keep using it is to take advantage of the general ignorance of their audience. If that isn't intellectual dishonesty, I don't know what is.

Yup, lying for Jesus. There are many more examples:

Prayer was taken out of school: It is allowed. Only school-led or coerced prayer is disallowed. They fucking know this!

America is a Christian Nation: The first 4 of the Ten Commandments are in direct conflict with the First Amendment. Only two of the commandments are mirrored in U.S. law (and the law of every other country). Don't steal and don't kill other people are a fucking no-brainer unless you are going for anarchy.

Excluding Christianity is equivalent to government endorsement of atheism: Right, as if no other religions exist. Excluding "under God" in the stupid Pledge of Aligience is NOT the same as including the statement, "under no God." Again, they know this.

They know that their own Bible has Jesus himself commanding that they pray in private - not openly, in public. They know he hated hypocrisy.

They know this country was founded by mostly Deists who were heavily influenced by the European Enlightenment. They know our constitution is an entirely secular document. They know the founders fully intended that religion be kept out of government.

They are shameless liars. Pure and simple. If Jesus was real, he would be disgusted with so many of his own followers because they are anathema to what he preached.

[Amarok]

An honest christian apologist is like a piano playing sea turtle . Very very rare .

[Silver]

It's not that apologists "may" be lying. They "are" lying.

[vorlon13]

I think the Mormon apologists truly have not a clue when they start their task just how deep their churches prevarication and mendacity runs, and that it runs literally back to the founding of their church. And the exact year of that is unknown since Joe Smith told so many lies about what year it started and failed to keep track of the correct one.

[AFTT47]

I think the Mormon apologists truly have not a clue when they start their task just how deep their churches prevarication and mendacity runs, and that it runs literally back to the founding of their church.  And the exact year of that is unknown since Joe Smith told so many lies about what year it started and failed to keep track of the correct one.

What's with your focus on Mormonism? They are a tiny minority outside of Utah. Most Christians eschew them. Bad personal experience?

[Fireball]

I think the Mormon apologists truly have not a clue when they start their task just how deep their churches prevarication and mendacity runs, and that it runs literally back to the founding of their church.  And the exact year of that is unknown since Joe Smith told so many lies about what year it started and failed to keep track of the correct one.

What's with your focus on Mormonism? They are a tiny minority outside of Utah. Most Christians eschew them. Bad personal experience?

Mormons are fucking everywhere. If you go to the Polynesian Cultural Center on Oahu, you will get a Mormon-centric view of the salvation of the Hawaiian people, in spite of the fact that the people bringing xtianity to Hawaii were Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Dutch Reformists from New England.

How about just not being liars?

[vorlon13]

Their (inexplicable) compulsion and commandment to be a record keeping people has literally been the handbook of how all religions have formed and evolved. If the Mormons did it, rest assured, they use the same playbook all the religions do. The big difference with them is they did it all in the last 2 centuries and at one time or another, published via their own in house organs, EVERYTHING.

As a result of all those records, Mormonism is ESPECIALLY easy to debunk, AND Mormonism is also a guide for debunking other religions too. Probably explains quite a bit of the other religions hostility to Mormonism; it's is easily demonstrated to be an especially false religion, and in the manner of all it's chicanery, and underhandedness, it implicates other religions.

A common claim of Mormon apologist when asked a troubling question (like was Joes Smith really arrested and convicted of money digging, or did Joe Smith and the church hierarchy change almost EVERY revelation they received from God MULTIPLE times?) will respond to before researching the answer is a statement like "why if that were true it would disprove Mormonism!" and then they research the question, get their worst case scenario answer straight from 100 year old church publications, and then they have to cheese up some lame ass explanation of why despite the problem, overall Mormonism is still true, never mind their earlier characterization.


I love Mormonism, easy to debunk TOTALLY, and it can be done ENTIRELY with their own self published materials.

That Joe Smith, he was a peach, wasn't he ??

[Succubus]

I think the Mormon apologists truly have not a clue when they start their task just how deep their churches prevarication and mendacity runs, and that it runs literally back to the founding of their church.  And the exact year of that is unknown since Joe Smith told so many lies about what year it started and failed to keep track of the correct one.

What's with your focus on Mormonism? They are a tiny minority outside of Utah. Most Christians eschew them. Bad personal experience?

Mormonism is an easy target for mockery in that its invention was documented every step of the way. And yet worldwide there are nearly sixteen million of the dumb bastards. What's not to laugh at?

[Angrboda]

That human beings should universally possess a talent for deceiving one another shouldn’t surprise us. Researchers speculate that lying as a behavior arose not long after the emergence of language. The ability to manipulate others without using physical force likely conferred an advantage in the competition for resources and mates, akin to the evolution of deceptive strategies in the animal kingdom, such as camouflage. “Lying is so easy compared to other ways of gaining power,” notes Sissela Bok, an ethicist at Harvard University who’s one of the most prominent thinkers on the subject. “It’s much easier to lie in order to get somebody’s money or wealth than to hit them over the head or rob a bank.”

Why We Lie: The Science Behind Our Deceptive Ways