Government workers that promote AA

[Minimalist]

The short answer to the OP is that it is an unconstitutional establishment of religion.

It didn't even get to the SCOTUS.


https://aaagnostica.org/2012/05/27/the-c...-religion/

In Establishment Clause cases, the high-level courts use a three-part test to determine if the wall of separation has been violated. First, has the State acted? Second, does the action amount to coercion? And third, is the object of coercion religious rather than secular? The answer to the first part of the test was quickly answered: yes, these cases clearly showed action by the State, involving the governmental branches of probation, parole and imprisonment. The second test was likewise quickly answered: yes, the probationers, parolees and inmates were being coerced into AA attendance.

Next, the high-level courts addressed the third part of the test. They took a long look at the Big Book and its 200 references to God; a look at the Twelve Steps and their unmistakable references to God; the prayers in A.A. meetings; and based on a full examination of these, ruled that AA doctrines and practices must be viewed as religious. Because multiple high-level courts have ruled uniformly on this matter, these rulings now constitute “clearly established law” in the US.

Suck it, jesus freaks.

[brewer]

It is a program that works for some. If it saves a few lives, what harm can a recommendation do. Without revealing too much personal info, NA helped me immensely in the 90's. Helped me to save my own life. The god thing was downplayed. We used to call Christian 12 steppers "13 Steppers".  We discretely mocked those that converted "higher power" to "higher Jesus". We had Wiccans, atheists, and First Peoples that invited us to sweat lodges. It works if you work it! However, beware of 12 step programs in fundie churches. Go to the ones held in parks, rehab centers, coffee shops. Seek out like minded individuals.

When it's own data says it is objectively worse than doing nothing (which doesn't even come up to placebo itself), and as a result it refuses to publish the data for thirty years,  then I say; yeah AA needs to be fucked out on its ear.

It's like allowing homeopathy in hospitals because on rare occasions sufferers get better after being administered sterilised water.

Data please.

[chimp3]

It is a program that works for some. If it saves a few lives, what harm can a recommendation do. Without revealing too much personal info, NA helped me immensely in the 90's. Helped me to save my own life. The god thing was downplayed. We used to call Christian 12 steppers "13 Steppers".  We discretely mocked those that converted "higher power" to "higher Jesus". We had Wiccans, atheists, and First Peoples that invited us to sweat lodges. It works if you work it! However, beware of 12 step programs in fundie churches. Go to the ones held in parks, rehab centers, coffee shops. Seek out like minded individuals.

When it's own data says it is objectively worse than doing nothing (which doesn't even come up to placebo itself), and as a result it refuses to publish the data for thirty years,  then I say; yeah AA needs to be fucked out on its ear.

It's like allowing homeopathy in hospitals because on rare occasions sufferers get better after being administered sterilised water.

I disagree. If somebody overcomes their addiction in a 12 Step program it is because of human connections(support)  and inner resolve, not because water has memory! Homeppathy and 12 Step  are false equivocations.

[Jackalope]

Surrendering one's self to a "higher power" was a problem for some people. We weren't really allowed to be atheists in those day no matter what the official policies were.

I can tell you that as recent as the late 80's that my experience was that Basic trainees who didn't go to church were not allowed to use the time at their leisure, at least im my company.

The CO was a bit of a dick, come to think of it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Surrendering one's self to a "higher power" was a problem for some people. We weren't really allowed to be atheists in those day no matter what the official policies were.

I can tell you that as recent as the late 80's that my experience was that Basic trainees who didn't go to church were not allowed to use the time at their leisure, at least im my company.

The CO was a bit of a dick, come to think of it.

In 1969 I was ordered to attend a church service. "Don't care if you pay attention or not, but you're going to one of them."

[rskovride]

Do you think government workers cross the line when they promote AA for addicts? I've had some AA people try to tell me that a higher power could be gravity and does not have to be supernatural but I didn't buy it. They use the term god in their literature. I don't deny that some people are helped by AA but there are people within AA that truly believe you cannot recover from addiction without it. From what I've studied, addictive behavior comes from the lack of good relationships with people so just joining some kind of group could be of benefit.

Community is a big deal for me.  Doesn't need to be AA or NA but you have a better chance of talking with someone who can relate to you in regards to addiction. 

Cross the line? No, at least not until a better option comes along.  AA and NA meetings are EVERYWHERE, and the welcome committee for addicts who might benefit from a community of people who, at the very least, share one struggle.

[Ravenshire]

Surrendering one's self to a "higher power" was a problem for some people. We weren't really allowed to be atheists in those day no matter what the official policies were.

I can tell you that as recent as the late 80's that my experience was that Basic trainees who didn't go to church were not allowed to use the time at their leisure, at least im my company.

The CO was a bit of a dick, come to think of it.

Same here. We had a DI who was fond of stating that "anyone too good to bend a knee to gawd can damn well bend a knee to duty." And, buy "duty," he meant detail. I've heard it's really no better in today's Army despite a lot of bullshit shoveled and lip service paid to the ideas of equality.