Government workers that promote AA

[Bahana]

Do you think government workers cross the line when they promote AA for addicts? I've had some AA people try to tell me that a higher power could be gravity and does not have to be supernatural but I didn't buy it. They use the term god in their literature. I don't deny that some people are helped by AA but there are people within AA that truly believe you cannot recover from addiction without it. From what I've studied, addictive behavior comes from the lack of good relationships with people so just joining some kind of group could be of benefit.

[JackRussell]

AA is a cult with no evidence for their success. 12 step cunts for the gullible.

I know it works for some and god-bless, but they never acknowledge their recidivism rates.

Another case where secular groups are more honest.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Do you think government workers cross the line when they promote AA for addicts? I've had some AA people try to tell me that a higher power could be gravity and does not have to be supernatural but I didn't buy it. They use the term god in their literature. I don't deny that some people are helped by AA but there are people within AA that truly believe you cannot recover from addiction without it. From what I've studied, addictive behavior comes from the lack of good relationships with people so just joining some kind of group could be of benefit.

I know AA was the core of the Alcohol Abuse Recovery Program in the USN back in the '80s.

[GUBU]

Do you think government workers cross the line when they promote AA for addicts? I've had some AA people try to tell me that a higher power could be gravity and does not have to be supernatural but I didn't buy it. They use the term god in their literature. I don't deny that some people are helped by AA but there are people within AA that truly believe you cannot recover from addiction without it. From what I've studied, addictive behavior comes from the lack of good relationships with people so just joining some kind of group could be of benefit.

The most recent useful dat released by the AA on their methods showed that not trying was a more effective way of kicking alcoholism than the twelve steps (it showed a c3% pa rate for twelve steps whereas unaided quitting is at around 5% pa). No wonder they haven't released useable data since the eighties.

[chimp3]

It is a program that works for some. If it saves a few lives, what harm can a recommendation do. Without revealing too much personal info, NA helped me immensely in the 90's. Helped me to save my own life. The god thing was downplayed. We used to call Christian 12 steppers "13 Steppers".  We discretely mocked those that converted "higher power" to "higher Jesus". We had Wiccans, atheists, and First Peoples that invited us to sweat lodges. It works if you work it! However, beware of 12 step programs in fundie churches. Go to the ones held in parks, rehab centers, coffee shops. Seek out like minded individuals.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Surrendering one's self to a "higher power" was a problem for some people. We weren't really allowed to be atheists in those day no matter what the official policies were.

[vulcanlogician]

Vorlon found benefit in it, and he obviously isn't a culty person. Jus' sayin.

[brewer]

AA has about the same success/failure rate as other outpatient addiction support groups. Don't be fooled when they tell you it's spiritual and not religious, it is religious. Any time you mention "God or God as we understand him", prayer, Christ, and end meeting with the Lords Prayer, it's a religion, christian religion. If you've read their literature you should note that they are to "tolerate" the heathen until they come around to the godly way of thinking. 

That being said, I attend AA meeting's where, for the most part, god is not discussed except as a nebulous higher power (ick, even that sticks in my throat). It's kept me clean for a few years now. Not sure if I still need it and not sure if I don't. Just know I don't want to go back to using so I still attend. 

And yes, it can be viewed as a cult, especially when people take it to the extreme. I avoid those people like the plague. 

Every group that I attend regularly knows that I'm an atheist. If they start to fuck with me, they either get an ear full or one of us walks out. 

I'm on the fence about people with legal troubles being forced to attend meetings as part of government probation/parole primarily because AA is religious. I know the courts have stated that a convicted person can refuse to attend on religious grounds but in my state their only other option would be to do the time. Most pick the lesser of two evils.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Vorlon found benefit in it, and he obviously isn't a culty person. Jus' sayin.

Didn't say all 12 steps were shit, a person who is inspired by them gets more out of them, obviously.

[GUBU]

It is a program that works for some. If it saves a few lives, what harm can a recommendation do. Without revealing too much personal info, NA helped me immensely in the 90's. Helped me to save my own life. The god thing was downplayed. We used to call Christian 12 steppers "13 Steppers".  We discretely mocked those that converted "higher power" to "higher Jesus". We had Wiccans, atheists, and First Peoples that invited us to sweat lodges. It works if you work it! However, beware of 12 step programs in fundie churches. Go to the ones held in parks, rehab centers, coffee shops. Seek out like minded individuals.

When it's own data says it is objectively worse than doing nothing (which doesn't even come up to placebo itself), and as a result it refuses to publish the data for thirty years, then I say; yeah AA needs to be fucked out on its ear.

It's like allowing homeopathy in hospitals because on rare occasions sufferers get better after being administered sterilised water.