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Current time: October 26, 2021, 1:34 pm

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Founding fathers view of government
#1
Founding fathers view of government
I saw a facebook post quoting rand paul as saying that the founding fathers saw the government as a necessary evil that they wanted as little to do with as possible. Isn't this first of all, a really pessimistic way of describing such a beneficial infrastructure like a Government? Obviously, much of our advancement in science and culture has to do with a unified government. But I'm mostly wondering if any one here has some insight on if that statement by paul was even accurate or not?
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#2
RE: Founding fathers view of government
I think Paul was probably correct in his assessment. Your founding documents, as well as the Founders early writings, are replete with things governments either cannot or should not do.

The Bill of Rights alone lists about twenty things the government can’t do.
Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#3
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Not at all. There were things that the colonists wanted from their government. They had recently lost massive subsidies for business and immigration, things they explicitly cited in the declaration, for example. This was the grievance that instigated our independence (and it wasn't just an american thing - at the time).

A strong federal government was believed to be necessary to provide (and a weak federal government seen to be imbecilic in the face of the demands of society), and not just those things over which a new nation was made......but all of the other things which we might one day find need of a government to organize. A future in which they very much saw the us spreading from sea to shining sea and becoming a global superpower. A capacity to provide for future contingencies.

They were certainly mistrustful of poor governance - which they believed george's reign to be a demonstration of. They wanted a better government that provided or protected or gauranteed more of those things they either needed or valued or desired.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#4
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Who cares what they wanted in 1776? This is 2021. It has been nearly two hundred fifty years, and circumstances have changed significantly.

Your American Founding Fathers wrote a document that was, for its time, pretty good. It worked well for a time; it was under the constitution that your forefathers extended the country to the West coast & build a powerful nation. But it is also under the constitution that America became a dystopian corporate hellscape. Maybe time to try something new?
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#5
RE: Founding fathers view of government
People wondering whether a sitting senators comments are an accurate depiction of historical reality, is who cares. It's pretty material to how the government is being run today since the tiny government myth and founding father fantasism are organizing principles for one of our two political parties.

You point out exactly the type of leeway that was provided for in our founding documentation - our government can do big successful things and big failed things. We can always try something new without needing to start over from scratch - because trying new things was intended, envisioned, and planned for in that founding documentation.

At any rate, the factual reality of the situation for the founders can make alot of our past comprehensible in ways that the myths of americana do not. The general isolationism we begin with was a direct result of not wanting to be embroiled in europes problems , since europes problems and the subsequent plan to fix them via the taxation of the colonies was why they'd lost or seen those desired subsidies and services reduced in the first place. It probably should be mentioned, as well, at this point, that our government was broke. Almost immediately the excise taxes and apparatus to collect them began to grow...and the Whiskey Rebellion was put down before the paint was dry on our new country.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#6
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Do you think the founding fathers would like Bernie Sanders?
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#7
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Are we talking politics or personally? Kindof difficult to opine on the latter. As much as anyone else may or may not like the guy, or any guy, I'd imagine.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#8
RE: Founding fathers view of government
I'm talking politics, I personally like Bernie as a person but he's too far left for my taste. I still believe he believes in what he's saying.
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#9
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Well...I did just get through explaining that the actual reason that we declared our independence was as the second best thing to getting subsidies from the mainland....so.....up to you to decide.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#10
RE: Founding fathers view of government
Do you agree with them firing the coach who did a silent prayer in Washington at his high school? I mean I'm an atheist but is that too far?
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