The Quran and The Prohibiting of Pedophilia? Marriage Contracts

[WinterHold]

You do realize that you just described the incoherence of your own analogy to god.....right? Is god "linguistic eloquence"?  

I ask, because that's really not far off from my own understanding of god.  I think that people were trying to describe things and forces (real and perceived) that were important to them, an so they anthropomorphized those forces...made them familiar and similar and comprehensible...to us, as beings or a being by way of analogy.

The analogy I use is based on the Quran only. I didn't claim that God is "perfect" based on my own thinking. It is written there; so I took it and believed in it.

You and I can have different understandings of God, and that's why using the Quran is essential to define the boundaries our minds should work within.

E.G: a boundary stated by the Quran is that God is "hollow". Thus; I can't actually picture him as a "Jesus" unless I break that boundary.

Another example, is that he is described to be perfect. Thus; I must assume that even when it comes to the creation of "books"; he makes the best books.

It's not a "personal analogy". Rather; it's taking the verse by the letter to be true.

I think that anthropomorphic attempts at religions were commit to make the concepts stated by holy books easier on the believers; and it was mainly done by the religious institution of each religion.
In Christianity, you have the "new testament" and its many references to Jesus being the same entity as God, to ease up the concept of "utter loyalty" that the prophet had towards God. It's easier -in my view- for early Christians to call Jesus and God the same; because Jesus was loyal. And there, the downfall of Christianity began: it was the opening of the door of anthropomorphic attempts derived from the heathen religions of the new believers.

That's my opinion; though.

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This shows again what a meaningless word "god" is. Now that it's just another mindless force, why is it any different to all the others? Why aren't they all gods too?

It wasn't me who said "God is a mindless force".
I said:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54335-p...pid1737675

From what I understood; he is more of a force

"More of a force". I only used this sentence to make the meaning that is in my mind closer to you.
He created all the other forces, he wills, he sees, but not a vision like ours, or a will like ours, and unlike any other force.

[JackRussell]

May the force be with you.

[LastPoet]

Well, if we could all now somehow detetct this force, we could tell Tibs to shutdown the forum.

[The Grand Nudger]

The analogy I use is based on the Quran only. I didn't claim that God is "perfect" based on my own thinking. It is written there; so I took it and believed in it.

I'm shocked to hear that you borrowed an incoherent analogy from magic book, shocked!

You and I can have different understandings of God, and that's why using the Quran is essential to define the boundaries our minds should work within.

That's one of the most overwhelmingly ignorant things I've ever seen committed to the written word.

I cut the rest, because it's garbage.   You can rail all you alike about anthropomorphization....but when you're done..remember..you're going to claim that a god is a being with desires and moods and a shitlist directly thereafter.

[WinterHold]

The analogy I use is based on the Quran only. I didn't claim that God is "perfect" based on my own thinking. It is written there; so I took it and believed in it.

I'm shocked to hear that you borrowed an incoherent analogy from magic book, shocked!

You and I can have different understandings of God, and that's why using the Quran is essential to define the boundaries our minds should work within.

That's one of the most overwhelmingly ignorant things I've ever seen committed to the written word.

I cut the rest, because it's garbage.   You can rail all you alike about anthropomorphization....but when you're done..remember..you're going to claim that a god is a being with desires and moods and a shitlist directly thereafter.

In the AMC show: The Walking Dead; the Savior's are a gang with a leader obsessed about loyalty. So when a member of the saviors is asked "who are you"; they answer "I'm Negan". Negan is the name of their leader.

So the whole gang is "Negan". Unconditional loyalty. If you go against the Saviors; you go against Negan. Every Savior is Negan.

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I know that season 8 sucked. The finale was....more than meh. I hated it. But enjoyed the show.

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Anyways; that concept of "loyalty" is springing from the simple mentality of the gang culture: "All Romans are Cesar; thus all of us Christians must be God; thus Jesus is God".
Not that the early Christians did think Jesus was God, but did consider abstractly, that Jesus is God, as in Negan and the Savior gangsters.

Loyalty. Jesus worries about God's interests as if were God himself; God "on earth"; God in "flesh". Then centuries after, the words manifest into a faith.
We all saw it; every religions has sects for this exact reason.

At this point, I think the faith got twisted.

The Bible was pure once. The Torah too. Jesus is a real prophet. Moses too. Just like Mohammed. But it's the religious institution that favored the mob mentality over what was revealed to them from God, applying anthropomorphism to what they can't understand. And it has it spoils. It allows them to have sex with children.

[WinterHold]

Yes; I forgot to mention this verse from the Quran, that speaks about exactly this:

Sura 4, The Quran:
( 171 )   O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Christians and Jews commit excess in their religion; just like I mentioned how Christians took the loyalty of Jesus to God; up until they linked Jesus to God physically. Jesus's loyalty doesn't mean he was an image of God. At first it was a metaphor, and later it became a religion. The Catholic institution is the first believer in such extreme notation.

[robvalue]

If it's moral for god to torture people, then that does away with any kind of objective morality. (Obviously this doesn't apply to Atlas' non-sentient version of Allah.) If it's okay to do stuff it otherwise wouldn't be just because of your standing in the universe, I'd say it logically follows that it would be moral for me to torture my own self-aware creations in a virtual (sub)universe, assuming I could create such a thing. I am their God, effectively.

I don't understand the "God isn't a man" explanation. If a non-human super powerful alien showed up and started torturing us, would that be moral?

Of course, God (assuming it is real) is generally defined so that it can do whatever the hell it likes. But morality isn't about what you are capable of doing, it's about how you should use your power. In my eyes, the more power you have, the more responsibility you should bear to use it carefully.

[The Grand Nudger]

@
"Hurr durr christers and teh joos!"

Islams magic book is a shameless rip of their "impure" magic books, which also contains endless anthropomorphizations and affirms the legitimacy of the sexual slavery of children.

[SaStrike]

Magic book? More like just book.

[WinterHold]

If it's moral for god to torture people, then that does away with any kind of objective morality. (Obviously this doesn't apply to Atlas' non-sentient version of Allah.) If it's okay to do stuff it otherwise wouldn't be just because of your standing in the universe, I'd say it logically follows that it would be moral for me to torture my own self-aware creations in a virtual (sub)universe, assuming I could create such a thing. I am their God, effectively.

I don't understand the "God isn't a man" explanation. If a non-human super powerful alien showed up and started torturing us, would that be moral?

Of course, God (assuming it is real) is generally defined so that it can do whatever the hell it likes. But morality isn't about what you are capable of doing, it's about how you should use your power. In my eyes, the more power you have, the more responsibility you should bear to use it carefully.

Non-Sentient?
Where did I say that God is "Non-Sentient"?

I literally said -and I quote myself-:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54335-p...pid1737785

The Quran describes Allah to be a "unique entity unlike any other", thus we can't say that he has a "centralized thinking organ" for example like humans. He is just like he described himself: "a unique and a hollow, that was never born or gave birth". We can describe any force of having "will"; that's for the sake of eloquence, like in the sentence "the sea had roared". Seas don't have mouths to roar; but it's the linguistic eloquence that draws an analogy to help us understand what God means. So it's the same with God in the Quran in my opinion. "Worship" is made strange and phony when it involves other humans or creations. But when it's about God; it is life itself.

I can't say anything about God except before I know very well that I'm saying is valid. Evidence shows that God loves, hates, but is love and hate as in Romeo & Juliet, or love and hate as in "the sea had roared"?

I believe the latter is true.
If you want to favor the other opinion; that would also be your choice.

Why can't you think that maybe, you belong to earth as a man? you spawned from its soil; you're stardust and water, earth is your mother. Ancient greeks worshiped the earth and called it Gaia, so the concept isn't that alien to us. It makes more sense say that earth is your mother, but who made the earth? Then; God comes as the first and the last who gave earth itself a meaning and a definition.

So the concept is quite intuitive. Gaia is right in front of you, so the concept of creation already exists. But earth is not God. It lacks so many things to be a God.

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@
"Hurr durr christers and teh joos!"

Islams magic book is a shameless rip of their "impure" magic books, which also contains endless anthropomorphizations and affirms the legitimacy of the sexual slavery of children.

1-You didn't bring me that verse from the  Quran that proves slavery and pedophilia are legal
2-Ironically; you keep insisting on the existence of an evidence that is not even there !