Grandizer, that is my thought as well. I don't think "nothing" is really possible. There must always be something. Saying this is God though needs far more.
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Argument from contingency
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 (April 25, 2018 at 10:24 am)mcc1789 Wrote: Grandizer, that is my thought as well. I don't think "nothing" is really possible. There must always be something. Saying this is God though needs far more. Why is that?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther 
RoadRunner, because otherwise it is a mere assertion.
(April 25, 2018 at 10:24 am)mcc1789 Wrote: Grandizer, that is my thought as well. I don't think "nothing" is really possible. There must always be something. Saying this is God though needs far more. They can call Existence God all they want, but then it would be a different god from the one they were originally meant to be defending. (April 25, 2018 at 10:33 am)mcc1789 Wrote: RoadRunner, because otherwise it is a mere assertion. Ok... thanks. I think I misunderstood what you where saying.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther  (April 24, 2018 at 11:53 pm)Hammy Wrote:(April 24, 2018 at 11:26 pm)mcc1789 Wrote: Okay, Hammy, thanks. Hey ! Don't mess with the humor !!! The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
The Argument from Contingency
(1) Everything that exists contingently has a reason for its existence. (2) The universe exists contingently. Therefore: (3) The universe has a reason for its existence. (4) If the universe has a reason for its existence then that reason is God. Therefore: (5) God exists. 1. Tautological. That's what contingent means. 2. Not necessarily. And it has to be necessarily for the argument to work. 3. If the universe is contingent, it must have a reason for its existence, because that's what contingent means. However, the universe may not be contingent, so there's that. 4. Non-sequitur. If the universe has a reason for its existence, that reason could be any number of things besides a being that willed it into existence. And again, no actual establishment that the universe is contingent, it's simply taken as a premise. 5. For all the reasons noted above, that does not follow from the first three premises, which are too many, btw, it should be a 1, 2, 3 argument: 1. Premise 1: there must be a reason for the existence of the universe. 2. Premise 2: that reason is God. 3. Conclusion: Since the universe must have a reason and that reason is God, God must be real. Doesn't sound so smart when boiled down to its essence, does it?
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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