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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 14, 2018 at 11:51 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2018 at 11:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 14, 2018 at 11:46 pm)CDF47 Wrote: It acts as a pump only when certain parts are removed though. I guess the pump would just be irreducibly complex then. This means that it;s not irreducibly complex. Parts can be removed, and the system still functions. Do you understand?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 14, 2018 at 11:52 pm
(This post was last modified: May 15, 2018 at 12:00 am by Amarok.)
Quote:Certain components, like the union, may be used for other machines. That is just a component though. Remove a part from the pump and the pump fails so it is irreducibly complex.
Does not matter if it can be altered in any way no matter how specific there is no reason to believe it could not be the result of an infinite series of function and alterations of prior forms . This is creationist goal post moving at it's finest .
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Flagellum#Evolution_2
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 14, 2018 at 11:53 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2018 at 11:57 pm by CDF47.)
(May 14, 2018 at 11:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (May 14, 2018 at 11:41 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I disagree. I think I have shown the brilliance behind DNA design and molecular machines and the construction of the universe. By being flat out wrong about literally everything? That would be a neat trick.
Quote:I can talk the eye. I prefer the flagellum though since it can operate as a pump under a different variation. The human eye has design trade-offs which optimizes it in some circumstances but reduces it's capability in others. It's designed to do what is needed for us humans.
Every time you mention alternate uses of a reduced biological structure you deny the claim of irreducible complexity. Is the trouble here that you can;t let go of that mistaken belief...or that you don;t understand what irreducible complexity is supposed to be?
I have been correct about nearly everything. Name each individual error I made. I can't think of any aside from maybe the end of Expelled is a hack job and the flagellum motor irreducible complexity.
I understand irreducible complexity. If a component is removed the system fails or is degraded. It is a simple concept.
(May 14, 2018 at 11:48 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:LOL...Sure.
You don't
Quote:I disagree. I think I have shown the brilliance behind DNA design and molecular machines and the construction of the universe.
It does not matter if you agree . you have shown nothing .
Quote:LOL...OK.
Yes it is kay
Quote:I can talk the eye. I prefer the flagellum though since it can operate as a pump under a different variation. The human eye has design trade-offs which optimizes it in some circumstances but reduces it's capability in others. It's designed to do what is needed for us humans.
Excuses disguised as what we would expect if evolution were true . If you accept one alteration there is no reason not accept an infinite collection of prior forms and different systems .
N/A
I disagree.
OK.
Scientists haven't found that with these molecular machines though. They are finding that they are irreducibly complex or can serve as different variants depending on their configuration; like the flagellum can serve as a pump with specific parts removed.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 14, 2018 at 11:58 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2018 at 11:59 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 14, 2018 at 11:53 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I have been correct about nearly everything. Name each individual error I made. I can't think of any aside from maybe the end of Expelled is a hack job and the flagellum motor irreducible complexity. I;m not going to rehash this entire thread with you. Perhaps you should re-read it from the first page, if you need that?
Quote:I understand irreducible complexity. If a component is removed the system fails or is degraded. It is a simple concept.
Excellent, and you were wrong about the irreducible complexity of the flagellum. Truth is, no matter what you picked you'd be wrong. Irreducible complexity is a failed idea.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 14, 2018 at 11:59 pm
(This post was last modified: May 15, 2018 at 12:01 am by CDF47.)
(May 14, 2018 at 11:51 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:I'll take the crown.
No you won't
Quote:False.
True
Quote:It acts as a pump only when certain parts are removed though. I guess the pump would just be irreducibly complex the
Does not matter if it can be altered in any way no matter how specific there is no reason to believe it could not be the result of an infinite series of function and alterations of prior forms . This is creationist excuse making 101 .
OK.
Agree to disagree.
Scientists are not finding that in these molecular machines. They are finding that they are irreducibly complex or can serve as different machine types under different variants. See post above.
(May 14, 2018 at 11:51 pm)Hammy Wrote: (May 14, 2018 at 11:48 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Agree to disagree and you don't care.
Agree to disagree and you don't care.
I do care.
I do care.
I do care.
Even Little Rik would outdo you in a debate................
Who is Little Rik?
(May 14, 2018 at 11:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (May 14, 2018 at 11:46 pm)CDF47 Wrote: It acts as a pump only when certain parts are removed though. I guess the pump would just be irreducibly complex then. This means that it;s not irreducibly complex. Parts can be removed, and the system still functions. Do you understand?
Yes, my bad, for the flagellum but the pump is still irreducibly complex. Other molecular machines are still irreducibly complex.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 15, 2018 at 12:02 am
(This post was last modified: May 15, 2018 at 12:03 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 14, 2018 at 11:59 pm)CDF47 Wrote:
(May 14, 2018 at 11:51 pm)Khemikal Wrote: This means that it;s not irreducibly complex. Parts can be removed, and the system still functions. Do you understand?
Yes, for the flagellum but the pump is still irreducibly complex. Other molecular machines are still irreducibly complex. Firstly, this is called moving the goalposts. Secondly and again..it;s not. The protein export has a precursor system as well. Do you want to know what;s under that, and how many layers down will we have to go before you stop?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 15, 2018 at 12:03 am
(May 14, 2018 at 11:52 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:Certain components, like the union, may be used for other machines. That is just a component though. Remove a part from the pump and the pump fails so it is irreducibly complex.
Does not matter if it can be altered in any way no matter how specific there is no reason to believe it could not be the result of an infinite series of function and alterations of prior forms . This is creationist goal post moving at it's finest .
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Flagellum#Evolution_2
The pump (Type III Transport System) is irreducibly complex.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 15, 2018 at 12:03 am
(This post was last modified: May 15, 2018 at 12:04 am by Amarok.)
Quote:Scientists are not finding that in these molecular machines.
Actually they are
Quote:They are finding that they are irreducibly complex or can serve as different machine types under different variants.
Actually they are not
Quote: See post above.
It's false so it does not matter .
Quote:The pump (Type III Transport System) is irreducibly complex.
No it's not
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 15, 2018 at 12:04 am
(May 14, 2018 at 11:58 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (May 14, 2018 at 11:53 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I have been correct about nearly everything. Name each individual error I made. I can't think of any aside from maybe the end of Expelled is a hack job and the flagellum motor irreducible complexity. I;m not going to rehash this entire thread with you. Perhaps you should re-read it from the first page, if you need that?
Quote:I understand irreducible complexity. If a component is removed the system fails or is degraded. It is a simple concept.
Excellent, and you were wrong about the irreducible complexity of the flagellum. Truth is, no matter what you picked you'd be wrong. Irreducible complexity is a failed idea.
Not tonight, LOL.
The pump is irreducibly complex though. Yeah, I was wrong about the flagellum.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
May 15, 2018 at 12:06 am
You;re wrong about the tIII as well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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