DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[Paleophyte]

Everenna,

Exodus 21:23-25 is referring to lex talionis, the law of retaliation, whereby a punishment resembles the offence committed in kind and degree.

That is not karma.

Karma would be 'if you cut out someone's left eye, you shall eventually lose your left eye in this life or the next'

Vengeance is 'he took your eye, you may take his, for it is proportionate retribution'

Vengeance and karma are not the same.

These laws were to be carried out by a government of people not by individuals utilizing vigilante justice.  It is part of a justice system and still holds true today (capital punishment).  Just to clarify.

Dear sweet dying Jesus writhing on the cross! Can none of you theists think outside your own bubbles long enough to figure out karma?

Capital and corporal punishment is vengeance. It doesn't matter if it's an individual or a government that carries out the sentence.

I'll grant you one thing though, capital punishment will get you karma. Just not the sort you want. That's the sort of behaviour that gets you reincarnated as a slaughter-house chicken for a few thousand lives until you get the point.

---

With more than 99 percent of these designs producing species  that went extinct because they didn't have what they needed to survive in their environment, the designer can't be too intelligent.

Included in that 99 per cent are mold spores (not conscious life), bacterias (not consciuos life), other germs (not conscious life), plants and other vegetation (not conscious life) some insects (and there 10 quintillion insects alive and well just in the US right now so gives a f-ck if some went extinct) and some animals. There was probably a very good reason for it too, as there always is a good reason for everything that happens in our universe, whether we are aware of that reason at the time or not. Also there are 11.7 million different species of life alive and well on this planet right now, with 7.8 million different species of conscious life . Additionally, there are now 7.53 Billion humans on this planet and that is way, way more than ever before in history.

That "fuck 99% of all species that ever lived" attitude bodes poorly for your next life.

The universe has no good reasons. It has no reasons at all. Reasons are what sentient creatures use to explain the universe. You're as likely to get mercy from the ocean as you are to get reasons from the universe.

7.8 Million species of conscious life?!? Are you counting the cockroaches as sentient or something equally daft?!?

And you think 7.5 Billion humans is a good thing? Have you ever seen a pond after the algae bloom goes bad? Tell me what looks wise or even sane about this picture to you:

[Angrboda]

...
The pre-existing universe always has been. Infinite like our souls. God has always lived there with us. Nothing made any of us. We are what is.

This one is simply full of shit and full of herself...one in the same.  Easy peasy.

For those that now ignore her, or who only respond in the third person...kudos.

For those still engaging with her directly...one simple question.  Why?

[Everena]

Included in that 99 per cent are mold spores (not conscious life), bacterias (not consciuos life), other germs (not conscious life), plants and other vegetation (not conscious life) some insects (and there 10 quintillion insects alive and well just in the US right now so gives a f-ck if some went extinct) and some animals. There was probably a very good reason for it too, as there always is a good reason for everything that happens in our universe, whether we are aware of that reason at the time or not. Also there are 11.7 million different species of life alive and well on this planet right now, with 7.8 million different species of conscious life . Additionally, there are now 7.53 Billion humans on this planet and that is way, way more than ever before in history.

That "fuck 99% of all species that ever lived" attitude bodes poorly for your next life.

The universe has no good reasons. It has no reasons at all. Reasons are what sentient creatures use to explain the universe. You're as likely to get mercy from the ocean as you are to get reasons from the universe.

7.8 Million species of conscious life?!? Are you counting the cockroaches as sentient or something equally daft?!?

And you think 7.5 Billion humans is a good thing? Have you ever seen a pond after the algae bloom goes bad?

Everena: I think it is fantastic and perfect and exactly the way it is supposed to be. Mourn mold spores, germs, annoying insects and dinosaurs that would have crushed you to death all you like.  And I guess the latest estimate is now 8.7 million species. 6.5 million on land and 2.2 million different species in the water. And you know what? That's enough! Less might even be better. And I am not the least bit worried about my next life. PPL in glass houses...

[Mister Agenda]

Everena: And so by default you are claiming this enitre universe and all consciousj life just  magically appeared without the use of any intelligence. Live with it. Own it. Stop trying to slink away from it.
And define natural in that context if that is what you truly believe so much.

I think the default is that the universe arose from natural causes like everything else, no magic necessary. What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?

Natural: Existing or caused by nature; not artificial (existing or caused by design).

---

Tautological and it can't possibly be otherwise, so no designer necessary. That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that one isn't needed to explain why there is not more life that can be supported by the available food. Any excess dies, because there isn't enough food.

The question is why is there food on this planet for the 7.8 million different species of conscious life? I understand that it is needed to sustain life. I am asking why it exists on our planet at all? Are you claiming food and herbs used as medicine and what we derive our medicines from are just here because we are lucky?

There are compounds that could be used as food by earthly life on planets all over the galaxy as far as we can see. Organic molecules that could be converted by bacteria are not in short supply. There's plenty more just in this solar system. If the planet were otherwise habitable, you could introduce bacteria, and they would have plenty to eat. And then other organisms could eat the bacteria, and so on. Earth is unique in our solar system for bearing life (unless Mars or Europa turn out to surprise us); but there are billions of billions of planets in the galaxy, and earth is far from the only terrestrial planet the right size in the 'goldilocks zone' of a star system. It's possible we're unique in our galaxy in having a technology-using civilization, but it's far less likely that earth is unique in having any life at all.

We have medicinal plants for the same reason we have poisonous plants. They evolved to survive, and we are smart enough to use the variations that have adaptations we can put to our use and avoid the variations that harm us. We've spent millennia finding out what plants help us and what plants hurt us, too bad there was no intelligence to protect us from being poisoned.

I used to live in an area where they have what we called beach apples. The term for them in Spanish means 'little apple of death'. Every part of the tree is poison. If you stand under it during a rainfall, the rain that drips through the leaves of the tree will blister your skin. The sap eats the paint off cars. If you burn the wood, the smoke can permanently damage your eyes. It's not actually clear if the fruit would actually kill you, because although 'sweet and peppery', the burning tends to make people spit it out or cough it up, though they will still need hospitalization. I suppose it would be 'useful' if you wanted to kill someone or make them suffer, though. Maybe put a leaf in their bathwater or something. Do you suppose the intelligence you assert designed them to help us hurt each other?

[CDF47]

Laws are to prevent crimes from occurring in the first place and to prevent future crimes from occurring when they do.  This was a justice system setup like any other government with laws being established for a civil government system.

Execution is by default retribution

It is to assure heinous crimes do not reoccur.  There is an element of vengeance in there as well.

---

Yup.

It started on page one, post one, and went downhill from there.

LOL.  It started when CDF registered his user name.

Oh come on.  The thread is not that bad just long.

---

Bro CDF, you got to let it go:

https://youtu.be/L0MK7qz13bU


It's been long.  Some of us see what you proven here, others won't. This thread is way too long bro.

I hear you.  I know, it's just one of my favorite topics to talk about.

---

These laws were to be carried out by a government of people not by individuals utilizing vigilante justice.  It is part of a justice system and still holds true today (capital punishment).  Just to clarify.

Dear sweet dying Jesus writhing on the cross! Can none of you theists think outside your own bubbles long enough to figure out karma?

Capital and corporal punishment is vengeance. It doesn't matter if it's an individual or a government that carries out the sentence.

I'll grant you one thing though, capital punishment will get you karma. Just not the sort you want. That's the sort of behaviour that gets you reincarnated as a slaughter-house chicken for a few thousand lives until you get the point.

---

Included in that 99 per cent are mold spores (not conscious life), bacterias (not consciuos life), other germs (not conscious life), plants and other vegetation (not conscious life) some insects (and there 10 quintillion insects alive and well just in the US right now so gives a f-ck if some went extinct) and some animals. There was probably a very good reason for it too, as there always is a good reason for everything that happens in our universe, whether we are aware of that reason at the time or not. Also there are 11.7 million different species of life alive and well on this planet right now, with 7.8 million different species of conscious life . Additionally, there are now 7.53 Billion humans on this planet and that is way, way more than ever before in history.

That "fuck 99% of all species that ever lived" attitude bodes poorly for your next life.

The universe has no good reasons. It has no reasons at all. Reasons are what sentient creatures use to explain the universe. You're as likely to get mercy from the ocean as you are to get reasons from the universe.

7.8 Million species of conscious life?!? Are you counting the cockroaches as sentient or something equally daft?!?

And you think 7.5 Billion humans is a good thing? Have you ever seen a pond after the algae bloom goes bad? Tell me what looks wise or even sane about this picture to you:

Capital punishment teaches lesson and sets an example to help mitigate against heinous crimes but I do agree there is a hint of vengeance there as well.

[Everena]

Everena: And so by default you are claiming this enitre universe and all consciousj life just  magically appeared without the use of any intelligence. Live with it. Own it. Stop trying to slink away from it.

And define natural in that context if that is what you truly believe so much.
[/quote]

I think the default is that the universe arose from natural causes like everything else,
no magic necessary. What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?
Natural: Existing or caused by nature; not artificial (existing or caused by design).

Everena: You did not adequately define natural. You're saying your cause for absolutely everything was caused by something that did not even exist yet? The term is vague and means nothing.

You understand that what you are saying is equivalent to you claiming that a large rock in your front yard turned itself into an entire universe with planets and conscious life for no apparent reason. That would require magic, because it would be literally impossible.

[CDF47]

Everena: And so by default you are claiming this enitre universe and all consciousj life just  magically appeared without the use of any intelligence. Live with it. Own it. Stop trying to slink away from it.

And define natural in that context if that is what you truly believe so much.

I think the default is that the universe arose from natural causes like everything else,
no magic necessary. What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?
Natural: Existing or caused by nature; not artificial (existing or caused by design).

Everena: You did not adequately define natural. You're saying your cause for abosolutely everything was caused by something that did not even exist yet? The term is vague and means nothing.

You understand that what you are saying is equivalent to you claiming that a large rock in your front yard turned itself into an entire universe with planets and conscious life for no apparent reason. That would require magic, because it would be literally impossible.

Absolutely it is the same thing as looking at that rock waiting for a universe to appear or a human to grow out of it.

[Everena]

The question is why is there food on this planet for the 7.8 million different species of conscious life? I understand that it is needed to sustain life. I am asking why it exists on our planet at all? Are you claiming food and herbs used as medicine and what we derive our medicines from are just here because we are lucky?

There are compounds that could be used as food by earthly life on planets all over the galaxy as far as we can see. Organic molecules that could be converted by bacteria are not in short supply. There's plenty more just in this solar system. If the planet were otherwise habitable, you could introduce bacteria, and they would have plenty to eat. And then other organisms could eat the bacteria, and so on. Earth is unique in our solar system for bearing life (unless Mars or Europa turn out to surprise us); but there are billions of billions of planets in the galaxy, and earth is far from the only terrestrial planet the right size in the 'goldilocks zone' of a star system. It's possible we're unique in our galaxy in having a technology-using civilization, but it's far less likely that earth is unique in having any life at all.

We have medicinal plants for the same reason we have poisonous plants. They evolved to survive, and we are smart enough to use the variations that have adaptations we can put to our use and avoid the variations that harm us. We've spent millennia finding out what plants help us and what plants hurt us, too bad there was no intelligence to protect us from being poisoned.

I used to live in an area where they have what we called beach apples. The term for them in Spanish means 'little apple of death'. Every part of the tree is poison. If you stand under it during a rainfall, the rain that drips through the leaves of the tree will blister your skin. The sap eats the paint off cars. If you burn the wood, the smoke can permanently damage your eyes. It's not actually clear if the fruit would actually kill you, because although 'sweet and peppery', the burning tends to make people spit it out or cough it up, though they will still need hospitalization. I suppose it would be 'useful' if you wanted to kill someone or make them suffer, though. Maybe put a leaf in their bathwater or something. Do you suppose the intelligence you assert designed them to help us hurt each other?

Logical fallacy. Strawman argument. The question is not how but why. The options are that either you think we just got lucky to have a planet full of delicious, nutritious, energy providing food for 8.7 million different species of life as well as being lucky by having healing herbs and plants to derive medicines from OR you think it's clear that higher intelligence was involved. There are no other options.

---

What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?

Higher Intelligence/God always has been and always will be just like our true selves/souls.

[Anomalocaris]

“Why” is nothing more an kindergarden caliber intelllect’s way of anthropamorphizingb reality so as to fit it into a preschool fantasy, and thereby avoiding confronting the adult job of finding out the deeper “how”.

[Everena]

“Why” is nothing more an kindergarden caliber intelllect’s way of anthropamorphizingb reality so as to fit it into a preschool fantasy, and thereby avoiding confronting the adult job of finding out the deeper “how”.

No, it is important to consider both why and how and not try to eliminate questions that do not fit well with your completely and utterly illogical worldview.