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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 23, 2018 at 8:03 pm
(May 23, 2018 at 11:51 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: (May 20, 2018 at 9:23 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: Who is the freeloader: the working poor on food stamps — or corporations that don’t pay them enough?
Sen. Sherrod Brown has a plan to tax corporations that don’t pay their workers enough.
By Dylan Scott@dylanlscott[email protected] May 18, 2018, 1:30pm EDT
[/url][url=https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/18/17368330/food-stamps-work-requirements-farm-bill-sherrod-brown#]
Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) prefers a “corporate freeloader” to work requirements for food stamps. Pete Marovich/Getty Images
Republicans in Congress just failed to pass a bill that would impose harsher work requirements for federal food stamps as part of the so-called farm bill, but there’s no sign they’re giving up on the idea anytime soon. Their argument is that, particularly with the Great Recession behind us, poorer Americans could and should be doing more to get into the workforce and off federal assistance.
The GOP’s plan raises all sorts of bigger questions, but an alternative plan by Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) asks a pretty straightforward one: Is the problem that people aren’t working enough? Or is it that they don’t receive a high enough wage or generous enough benefits from their employer?
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...rrod-brown
So if they raised the minimum wage to 15$, how much cuts in food stamps would you be in favor of?
Canada and most of western Europe doesn't have food stamps.
The two things aren't related. Also the minimum wage actually helps the economy. It helps the wealthy businessmen who are against it, because people actually have surplus funds to buy their product.
If you think these things are related, please explain how.
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 23, 2018 at 8:15 pm
It's one of those batshit negotiation situations. Say you want more electricity, well..would you be willing to give up some of your oxygen for it? Huh, would you?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 4:18 am
This is precisely why collective bargaining/unions came into being in the first place.
Perhaps someone should remind corporate CEOs that workers banding together to present formal grievances is the alternative that was worked out to curtail the time honoured practice of breaking down the factory owner's front door and beating him to death in front of his family.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 7:00 am
(May 23, 2018 at 4:47 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (May 20, 2018 at 10:28 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The problem is that kids keep on wanting to eat.
This is what I'm saying. Like FFS. I had to feed them last night. And they're gonna want to eat tonight too.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 8:04 am
@Boru
Some traditions are worth keeping.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 11:05 am
(May 23, 2018 at 4:59 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (May 23, 2018 at 11:51 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: So if they raised the minimum wage to 15$, how much cuts in food stamps would you be in favor of?
Canada and most of western Europe doesn't have food stamps. Actually we have food vouchers in Canada . But we prefer direct money and food banks .
Sorry but for a family of 4, $15 isn't even a livable wage when you consider that off the top, you don't see an average of 26% of your paycheck due to taxes and other deductions. This of course, depends on where you live, but in my location, 26% is the norm here so I'm going by that. That leaves you with approximately $11.10 per hour to work with. After those taxes and deductions and based on a 40 hour work week, that's $444 a week or $1924 per month you see on your check. $23,088 yearly. Let's do some more math.
My household pays $1025 a month for rent on a two bedroom townhouse. We converted the front part of the finished basement into a bedroom for one of my kids. That's $12,300 a year on rent alone. Subtract that from the $23,088 and you're left with $10,788. There's electric, gas, water, cable (internet which the kids need to do homework) and phones which, combined, those utilities cost $446 per month. That's $5,352 a year. Subtract that from $10,788 and you're left with $5,436. We still haven't eaten yet, or paid our car payment, car insurance, renter's insurance (required as per our lease), maintenance on vehicles, including a yearly inspection and emissions fee for the stickers, vehicle registration. We also haven't yet paid for clothes for the kids (because they just have to grow), money for field trips, medications, ER visits, gas for our vehicles, health insurance. All in all, my family's expenses, including rent and utilities, run well over $2200 per month. That puts us well over the $1924 per month my other half would bring home, if he were earning $15 an hour.
And of course, none of this counts in the fact that there are unique circumstances for everyone. Many people pay child support. Guess what... my other half paid out over $800 a month, based on $17.00 per hour when his ex had the boys full time.
Keep in mind that at $23,088 (after deductions) based on a $15.00 per hour wage, for a family of four, still puts that family below 100% of the Federal Poverty Level Guideline of $24,300. A family of 5, which we are, is $28,440 and we still can't get help. Why? See below.
Sadly, most government programs use gross wage calculations, rather than a net earning amount to determine if a family qualifies for help. It can easily be argued that if you earn $15.00 then you make $31,200 a year, but realistically, you don't see $8112 of that money for that year. But they count it as earned income anyway. The system is designed to keep the poor, poor. There is simply no good, realistic way to get out of being poor unless you don't have kids or you come into a windfall of money. You can budget until your fingers bleed, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, for many working families the struggle is all too real.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 11:43 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2018 at 11:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
That;s the disconnect. It doesn;t matter how much a person makes, when it comes to whether or not they need assistance. It matters how much their life costs.
We play with one as an imperfect brute force way to effect the other, but in truth...business doesn;t absorb that increase, it shuffles that off to consumers as a cost. Increasing wages will never have the effect we want without price controls.
If we're not willing to engage in hard price controls..even if we do increase wages, we'll stioll have to offer assistance at whatever rate is necessary. It;s not some sliding negotiation where we can barter for one at the expense of the other.
Regardless of all of the above...business will shift the cost of labor and -also- consume the subsidized benefits.
/twocents.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 2:07 pm
(May 24, 2018 at 11:05 am)Joods Wrote: (May 23, 2018 at 4:59 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Actually we have food vouchers in Canada . But we prefer direct money and food banks .
Sorry but for a family of 4, $15 isn't even a livable wage when you consider that off the top, you don't see an average of 26% of your paycheck due to taxes and other deductions. This of course, depends on where you live, but in my location, 26% is the norm here so I'm going by that. That leaves you with approximately $11.10 per hour to work with. After those taxes and deductions and based on a 40 hour work week, that's $444 a week or $1924 per month you see on your check. $23,088 yearly. Let's do some more math.
My household pays $1025 a month for rent on a two bedroom townhouse. We converted the front part of the finished basement into a bedroom for one of my kids. That's $12,300 a year on rent alone. Subtract that from the $23,088 and you're left with $10,788. There's electric, gas, water, cable (internet which the kids need to do homework) and phones which, combined, those utilities cost $446 per month. That's $5,352 a year. Subtract that from $10,788 and you're left with $5,436. We still haven't eaten yet, or paid our car payment, car insurance, renter's insurance (required as per our lease), maintenance on vehicles, including a yearly inspection and emissions fee for the stickers, vehicle registration. We also haven't yet paid for clothes for the kids (because they just have to grow), money for field trips, medications, ER visits, gas for our vehicles, health insurance. All in all, my family's expenses, including rent and utilities, run well over $2200 per month. That puts us well over the $1924 per month my other half would bring home, if he were earning $15 an hour.
And of course, none of this counts in the fact that there are unique circumstances for everyone. Many people pay child support. Guess what... my other half paid out over $800 a month, based on $17.00 per hour when his ex had the boys full time.
Keep in mind that at $23,088 (after deductions) based on a $15.00 per hour wage, for a family of four, still puts that family below 100% of the Federal Poverty Level Guideline of $24,300. A family of 5, which we are, is $28,440 and we still can't get help. Why? See below.
Sadly, most government programs use gross wage calculations, rather than a net earning amount to determine if a family qualifies for help. It can easily be argued that if you earn $15.00 then you make $31,200 a year, but realistically, you don't see $8112 of that money for that year. But they count it as earned income anyway. The system is designed to keep the poor, poor. There is simply no good, realistic way to get out of being poor unless you don't have kids or you come into a windfall of money. You can budget until your fingers bleed, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, for many working families the struggle is all too real. Oh i never said it was adequate. I was simply correcting Capt on his claim about Canada as food stamps .
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RE: Instead of Harsher Work Requirements for Food Stamps....
May 24, 2018 at 2:09 pm
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2018 at 2:19 pm by Joods.)
(May 24, 2018 at 2:07 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (May 24, 2018 at 11:05 am)Joods Wrote: Sorry but for a family of 4, $15 isn't even a livable wage when you consider that off the top, you don't see an average of 26% of your paycheck due to taxes and other deductions. This of course, depends on where you live, but in my location, 26% is the norm here so I'm going by that. That leaves you with approximately $11.10 per hour to work with. After those taxes and deductions and based on a 40 hour work week, that's $444 a week or $1924 per month you see on your check. $23,088 yearly. Let's do some more math.
My household pays $1025 a month for rent on a two bedroom townhouse. We converted the front part of the finished basement into a bedroom for one of my kids. That's $12,300 a year on rent alone. Subtract that from the $23,088 and you're left with $10,788. There's electric, gas, water, cable (internet which the kids need to do homework) and phones which, combined, those utilities cost $446 per month. That's $5,352 a year. Subtract that from $10,788 and you're left with $5,436. We still haven't eaten yet, or paid our car payment, car insurance, renter's insurance (required as per our lease), maintenance on vehicles, including a yearly inspection and emissions fee for the stickers, vehicle registration. We also haven't yet paid for clothes for the kids (because they just have to grow), money for field trips, medications, ER visits, gas for our vehicles, health insurance. All in all, my family's expenses, including rent and utilities, run well over $2200 per month. That puts us well over the $1924 per month my other half would bring home, if he were earning $15 an hour.
And of course, none of this counts in the fact that there are unique circumstances for everyone. Many people pay child support. Guess what... my other half paid out over $800 a month, based on $17.00 per hour when his ex had the boys full time.
Keep in mind that at $23,088 (after deductions) based on a $15.00 per hour wage, for a family of four, still puts that family below 100% of the Federal Poverty Level Guideline of $24,300. A family of 5, which we are, is $28,440 and we still can't get help. Why? See below.
Sadly, most government programs use gross wage calculations, rather than a net earning amount to determine if a family qualifies for help. It can easily be argued that if you earn $15.00 then you make $31,200 a year, but realistically, you don't see $8112 of that money for that year. But they count it as earned income anyway. The system is designed to keep the poor, poor. There is simply no good, realistic way to get out of being poor unless you don't have kids or you come into a windfall of money. You can budget until your fingers bleed, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, for many working families the struggle is all too real. Oh i never said it was adequate. I was simply correcting Capt on his claim about Canada as food stamps .
I know... it wasn't your post I was actually responding to, but rather CA and his comment. I should have edited it. I'm so sorry about that.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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