What is your problem with Atheism?

[The Grand Nudger]

uh-huh. 

[The Valkyrie]

Neo makes a clear appeal to consequences, yet he maintains he's not in it for the swag.  I call bullshit.

Adoption of an idea need not be fully based on foreseeable outcomes. If one believes atheism to be true then one should embrace/accept what follows from that position, for good or ill. Similarly for Christianity, Hinduism, etc. Christianity asserts that despite natural physical differences in ability, health, intelligence, strength etc. or circumstantial differences in wealth, prestige, power, etc. every human being is existentially equal and deserving of all the dignity afforded to them by virtue of being God's children. Secular humanism has adopted this principle...just because...and could as easily dispense with it...just because.

Unless you have ovaries...

Or belong to a different belief system...

Or (insert any one of a hundred caveats here).

[Mystic]

I agree with Neo on this. And I would say Atheism being embraced world-wide, would lead to apathy to the oppression in the world and it's bad enough as is, with people taking their duty to the oppressed lightly.

Watching oppressors oppress, is being partners in the crime per teachings of the holy family of the last reminder revealed to humanity.

And there is consequences, eternal consequences, of living in luxury while doing nothing for oppressed.

And till people understand this,  as love for humans can't motivate people as you can see everyone says their empathetic but do little for the oppressed,  until they understand the consequence of their apathy, and understand to the extent perceive to the extent of being in intense fear of the consequences,  oppression will continue.

Fear of God is a necessary condition to relieve the world of oppressors and oppression.

It won't happen without it.

Furthermore, it seems Atheists tend to be on the wrong side with too many moral issues. This shows it leads to confusion regarding morality.

[The Valkyrie]

I agree with Neo on this. And I would say Atheism being embraced world-wide, would lead to apathy to the oppression in the world and it's bad enough as is, with people taking their duty to the oppressed lightly.

Watching oppressors oppress, is being partners in the crime per teachings of the holy family of the last reminder revealed to humanity.

And there is consequences, eternal consequences, of living in luxury while doing nothing for oppressed.

And till people understand this,  as love for humans can't motivate people as you can see everyone says their empathetic but do little for the oppressed,  until they understand the consequence of their apathy, and understand to the extent perceive to the extent of being in intense fear of the consequences,  oppression will continue.

Fear of God is a necessary condition to relieve the world of oppressors and oppression.

It won't happen without it.

Furthermore, it seems Atheists tend to be on the wrong side with too many moral issues. This shows it leads to confusion regarding morality.

No.  Atheism, generally, encompasses humanisn.  That leads to the caring for our fellow humans.

You forget that most - certainly not all - of those oppressors you mention believe they have a god figure on their side.

Fear doesn't lead to the destruction of oppression, hatred, or corruption.  That only comes from an open society.

[The Grand Nudger]

Don;t forget cats marrying dogs, Mystic.

[Mystic]

I agree with Neo on this. And I would say Atheism being embraced world-wide, would lead to apathy to the oppression in the world and it's bad enough as is, with people taking their duty to the oppressed lightly.

Watching oppressors oppress, is being partners in the crime per teachings of the holy family of the last reminder revealed to humanity.

And there is consequences, eternal consequences, of living in luxury while doing nothing for oppressed.

And till people understand this,  as love for humans can't motivate people as you can see everyone says their empathetic but do little for the oppressed,  until they understand the consequence of their apathy, and understand to the extent perceive to the extent of being in intense fear of the consequences,  oppression will continue.

Fear of God is a necessary condition to relieve the world of oppressors and oppression.

It won't happen without it.

Furthermore, it seems Atheists tend to be on the wrong side with too many moral issues. This shows it leads to confusion regarding morality.

No.  Atheism, generally, encompasses humanisn.  That leads to the caring for our fellow humans.

You forget that most - certainly not all - of those oppressors you mention believe they have a god figure on their side.

Fear doesn't lead to the destruction of oppression, hatred, or corruption.  That only comes from an open society.

Everyone can assert good morals and standards. Relieving the world of oppressors is going to take a people who are courageous, brave, and can endure oppression and not selling out their dignity for temporal pleasures. To do that, it needs fuel and steering on course.  And at the end of it, without trust in the Creator that will get us through when times get tough as he did in the past with Moses and previous savior Messengers who saved the believers from the oppression they faced of the deceivers and manipulators... 

Without trust..there will be no salvation. And when we sincerely turn to God and hope in his champion Leader he appointed, everything will be easy

Relieving the world of false authority can't be done with apathy and just words that you don't believe in false authority. You have to replace it with something tangible.

If people are going stop getting all their enlightenment/confusion from x people, then replacing with y people and claiming the same thing that x people except with non-Creator mythology and petty gods (like material things acquired in this world) to replace the God as highest valued being, is no solution.

At the end, a figure like Moses and hope in such a figure to be a relief for the oppressed and implementation of God's severe justice on the oppressors, if this is the only path forward for humanity then yes I can have a problem with Atheism as well as to all religions who misguided with respect to the need of navigation from God and guidance from him.

Atheism makes it as if it's the solution to the divisions and mess of religions, but it's not.  It's just going to lead to more divisions and ignorance.

Religions are a mess- but turning away from the question of religion and just doing away with God, sorry, that is a lazy apathetic way of handling this great divide we have.

You have intelligence. You can sort it out. Just takes effort. A huge hint: the true religion will have similarities yes, but also complete different way of approaching religion than all others that will guide to the straight path for all humans and is the way forward.

And avoiding and not accepting proofs of God just as to do away with the mess of religions, is no better, then the laziness of religious who don't seek the truth and way forward to unite humanity.

[Angrboda]

Neo makes a clear appeal to consequences, yet he maintains he's not in it for the swag.  I call bullshit.

Adoption of an idea need not be fully based on foreseeable outcomes. If one believes atheism to be true then one should embrace/accept what follows from that position, for good or ill. Similarly for Christianity, Hinduism, etc. Christianity asserts that despite natural physical differences in ability, health, intelligence, strength etc. or circumstantial differences in wealth, prestige, power, etc. every human being is existentially equal and deserving of all the dignity afforded to them by virtue of being God's children. Secular humanism has adopted this principle...just because...and could as easily dispense with it...just because.

More arguments from ignorance from you. If your beliefs are truly dependent on such arguments, than woe be to you. You also didn't really answer the original complaint.

ETA: Also, secular humanism is not atheism.

[Simon Moon]

You have deeply offended my delicate carefully constructed lack of belief.

Theists generally tell me :If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in anything.
I say to them: If you don't believe in the natural world around you, make some shit up instead!

I don't accept mythology without a Creator. You can call your mythology science and say you have evidence, but you don't.  I use to believe Science deeply because a lot of made sense and seemed intuitive.

So, you presuppose a creator is necessary, then shoehorn all of science into your presupposition. Not much chances of confirmation bias there. No sir.

I use to believe in evolution.

And you used to be correct.
 
Now you have to ignore: genetic, comparative anatomy, fossil record, and other sources of evidence to disbelieve evolution.

Congratulations for becoming willfully ignorant.

But just like philosophy, if you stay at medium layer, you become Atheist, but if you go deeply, you unravel treasures that prove God, the same is true to me now of science and irreducible complexity.

Not a single example of 'irreducible complexity' is actually irreducibly complex. You haven't been keeping up with current science.

My biggest problem with Atheists is they act like they know all about the evidence, when they don't. They make as if they research science deeply, but they have not.

Most atheist do have a deeper knowledge of the sciences.

After all, 72% of scientists are atheists.

Everything they study is just a superficial level that the education system directed them to and appealed with.

BS.

Go deeper - for the truth.

Please provide a method that I can follow to 'go deeper'.

You are not the only jury for what stands for evidence of God. Everyone can decide that.

True.

Some people allow for poor evidence for their god.

Fallacious philosophical arguments, ancient texts, personal experience, are not good evidence.

You hold the stance there is none, I just don't find anyone you capable of digesting a proper argument for God to be honest. Even Jo at the end, to me at least didn't seem to understand the witness argument as I presented when she responded.

We've all refuted your fallacious arguments.

Not our fault that you fail at basic logic.

So I don't know what it is, something, just keeps what otherwise very clear - from clicking.

Maybe it's not our fault for not understanding your 'very clear arguments. Maybe they are simply fallacious. That would be my guess.

[The Valkyrie]

No.  Atheism, generally, encompasses humanisn.  That leads to the caring for our fellow humans.

You forget that most - certainly not all - of those oppressors you mention believe they have a god figure on their side.

Fear doesn't lead to the destruction of oppression, hatred, or corruption.  That only comes from an open society.

Everyone can assert good morals and standards. Relieving the world of oppressors is going to take a people who are courageous, brave, and can endure oppression and not selling out their dignity for temporal pleasures. To do that, it needs fuel and steering on course.  And at the end of it, without trust in the Creator that will get us through when times get tough as he did in the past with Moses and previous savior Messengers who saved the believers from the oppression they faced of the deceivers and manipulators... 

Without trust..there will be no salvation. And when we sincerely turn to God and hope in his champion Leader he appointed, everything will be easy

Relieving the world of false authority can't be done with apathy and just words that you don't believe in false authority. You have to replace it with something tangible.

If people are going stop getting all their enlightenment/confusion from x people, then replacing with y people and claiming the same thing that x people except with non-Creator mythology and petty gods (like material things acquired in this world) to replace the God as highest valued being, is no solution.

At the end, a figure like Moses and hope in such a figure to be a relief for the oppressed and implementation of God's severe justice on the oppressors, if this is the only path forward for humanity then yes I can have a problem with Atheism as well as to all religions who misguided with respect to the need of navigation from God and guidance from him.

Atheism makes it as if it's the solution to the divisions and mess of religions, but it's not.  It's just going to lead to more divisions and ignorance.

Religions are a mess- but turning away from the question of religion and just doing away with God, sorry, that is a lazy apathetic way of handling this great divide we have.

You have intelligence. You can sort it out. Just takes effort. A huge hint: the true religion will have similarities yes, but also complete different way of approaching religion than all others that will guide to the straight path for all humans and is the way forward.

And avoiding and not accepting proofs of God just as to do away with the mess of religions, is no better, then the laziness of religious who don't seek the truth and way forward to unite humanity.

Wow.

I don't even know where to begin.  There are so many fallacies, false assertions, and outright nonsense I feel like a fat kid in a candy shop, not knowing where to start.

I'll do a full breakdown when I have more time,  Right now, I'm just going to order some dressing to have with this salad.

[polymath257]

Atheism undermines the values of Western liberal democracy, such as the existential equality of all human beings, human dignity, and inalienable rights.

Funny. When the church was in power, we had slavery and noble privilege. When doubt came on the scene, we acquired rights and equality. That seems to disprove your point.