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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 12:38 pm
(June 13, 2018 at 12:20 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: I love the hypocrisy of RR decrying the use of the term bigotry because of its baggage, then using a broad definition of discrimination knowing full well it has plenty of baggage of it's own.
Yes, RR, we discriminate all the time. I frequently and openly discriminate against Walmart because their business practices are deplorable. Guess wahy. That's nit a crime because Walmart isn't part of a protected class. The only reason to discriminate against a same sex wedding is because the participants are gay, a protected class in Colorado. It's not like choosing I phones over Galaxies or Target over Walmart. It's fueled by ignorance or hatred, and most often both.
For the argument from sincerely held beliefs to hold any weight at all, you would have to make exceptions to the law for Seventh Day Adventists and their sincerely held belief that mixed race marriages are wrong.
I don’t decry the use of the word “bigot” or “discriminate” because of any baggage. I have a problem when people are using it incorrectly as an emotional polemic.
As to your “because they are gay” reasoning, I am not arguing discrimination because of that nor do I see that being put forth by Christian commentators or most Christians for that matter. So that doesn’t apply nor do the conclusions to those who it does not accurately representing. It’s just bad reasoning and lies.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2018 at 12:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, because refusing to sell a cake to gay people, specifically, has nothing to do with their being gay. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 12:57 pm
I find it strange that god’s will needs so much support from secular law.
If you think I’m a sinner, isn’t that between me and God? What could you possibly achieve by trying to annoy me on my way to hell?
Are you concerned you will go to hell for performing your business with me? You’re worried god will be really angry at you for selling cakes to me? Or is your snub supposed to make me reconsider my “choices”?
Pah, self-righteous horse shit. It’s nothing to do with God and everything to do with thinking your own hang ups are somehow above the law.
Remember the law?
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 1:01 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2018 at 1:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Maybe it;ll score them some brownie points with the big guy..to offset those times they crossed into masturbation by shaking it four times instead of three. Their "sincerely held beliefs" are based upon transaction, after all.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 1:27 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2018 at 1:28 pm by Silver.)
(June 13, 2018 at 12:57 pm)robvalue Wrote:
My experience is that theists are biblically tasked to share their religious "truth" with non-believers for the sake of attempting "saving souls".
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 1:47 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm by Ravenshire.)
(June 13, 2018 at 12:38 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I don’t decry the use of the word “bigot” or “discriminate” because of any baggage. I have a problem when people are using it incorrectly as an emotional polemic.
As if you didn't use the broader definition of discrimination for exactly the same reasons.
So, RR, you ready to defend the "right" of a Seventh Day Adventist baker to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a mixed race wedding? After all, it's his sincere, deeply held belief. It's even backed by scripture, if you ask him.
Or, are you going to claim that's somehow different?
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 1:57 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2018 at 2:40 pm by RoadRunner79.)
(June 13, 2018 at 12:57 pm)robvalue Wrote: I find it strange that god’s will needs so much support from secular law.
If you think I’m a sinner, isn’t that between me and God? What could you possibly achieve by trying to annoy me on my way to hell?
Are you concerned you will go to hell for performing your business with me? You’re worried god will be really angry at you for selling cakes to me? Or is your snub supposed to make me reconsider my “choices”?
Pah, self-righteous horse shit. It’s nothing to do with God and everything to do with thinking your own hang ups are somehow above the law.
Remember the law?
That would be pretty easy to argue against, if anyone was positing it. The Bible says that all are sinners, so it is difficult to use that as a rejection criteria for a business model.
You could perhaps argue that they are inconsistent in the application. However much like the “because they are gay theory”, this is testable. You can change other variables and see if the issue follows the person who is homosexual. In the case in dispute from the op, and what I see most arguing as well as an additional case of a florist, the hypothesis that it will follow the person fails.
As to you fanciful assumptions of motivations, I find the quite imaginative and somewhat naive. And you talk of people being self-righteousness. LOL
(June 13, 2018 at 1:47 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: So, RR, you ready to defend the "right" of a Seventh Day Adventist baker to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a mixed race wedding? After all, it's his sincere, deeply held belief. It's even backed by scripture, if you ask him.
Or, are you going to claim that's somehow different?
Yes, I could see where that could fall along the same lines. However there are some completing arguments that they are not the same. But I’ll concede for the sake of discussion.
I’m also willing to defend the right of the KKK to freedom of speech. And would defend the right of a Jew to refuse to make a cake with a swastica on it, or for a Nazi rally. And as previously stated, I think that those who are against the rights of the baker in this case can voice their opinions. I don’t think there is a right however to argue straw men and make up false narratives about those you oppose.
(June 13, 2018 at 1:47 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: (June 13, 2018 at 12:38 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I don’t decry the use of the word “bigot” or “discriminate” because of any baggage. I have a problem when people are using it incorrectly as an emotional polemic.
As if you didn't use the broader definition of discrimination for exactly the same reasons.
By the way, I just wanted to let you know, that I didn't address this, because I don't think that it is pertinent to the discussion. I kind of think that others where doing the same (which was the point), but if you want to say I was in the wrong, I say I concede, and let's move on.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 4:19 pm
(June 13, 2018 at 1:27 pm)Kit Wrote: My experience is that theists are biblically tasked to share their religious "truth" with non-believers for the sake of attempting "saving souls".
Does the bible also say they should deny goods and services to non-believers or those whom they feel are committing sin?
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 4:31 pm
It must, according to those who plead with the government to have such a right...or they wouldn;t have a case to plead.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Supreme Court Rules In Favor Of Colorado Baker
June 13, 2018 at 4:48 pm
The Bible says anything you want it to say.
Clothes are a sin! We should all go around naked. I'm sure the religious freedom people wouldn't want to interfere with our freedom of religion by forcing us to wear clothes. (A friend of mine actually believes this btw. Of course she's not a Christian, but she believes wearing clothes is wrong)
The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to woman is, to the last degree, contemptuous and degrading. - Elizabeth Cady Stanton
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