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That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
#21
RE: That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
(June 25, 2018 at 10:25 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(June 25, 2018 at 10:02 am)Brian37 Wrote:


Yes, in a view of subjective morality, you are saying morality and therefore rights are based on the subject (or perhaps a group of subjects).   Therefore you cannot claim that something is immoral or more or less moral apart from that foundation.  You cannot compare and say that something is more or less moral for another person or culture.  Objective rights outside of the person or culture do not exist.  It doesn't even make sense to say that they don't deserve these rights, under moral subjectivity.  And merely having compassion or empathy doesn't work either in regards to morality and rights.

Yep, I need a fictional sky wizard to magically hand me down my goodness right?

No I do not.
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#22
RE: That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
(June 25, 2018 at 10:58 am)Losty Wrote:
(June 25, 2018 at 10:53 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Well context is important to a conversation.  Sometimes I make the mistake of assuming that what someone is saying has to do with what is being talked about.

More like sometimes you like to put words into other people’s mouths.

What I said directly related to what I responded to. Which was that you’ve never heard the argument that illegal immigrants don’t deserve rights. I honestly don’t think you’ve been walking around blind and deaf all this time. I just think you’re being dishonest about having never heard such an argument. But that’s just my opinion.

A false opinion at that... if you care!

(June 25, 2018 at 11:02 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(June 25, 2018 at 10:25 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Yes, in a view of subjective morality, you are saying morality and therefore rights are based on the subject (or perhaps a group of subjects).   Therefore you cannot claim that something is immoral or more or less moral apart from that foundation.  You cannot compare and say that something is more or less moral for another person or culture.  Objective rights outside of the person or culture do not exist.  It doesn't even make sense to say that they don't deserve these rights, under moral subjectivity.  And merely having compassion or empathy doesn't work either in regards to morality and rights.

Yep, I need a fictional sky wizard to magically hand me down my goodness right?

No I do not.

I agree, that you don't need to be religious to know that there is real right and wrong, if that is what you are saying.   And I didn't say anything about God, just that under a view that morality is subjective, that it doesn't make sense to talk about human rights; outside of what the subject or culture gives.   That moral subjectivitists are often inconsistent in this.   Perhaps you are ok with this.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#23
RE: That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
(June 25, 2018 at 9:38 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(June 25, 2018 at 9:13 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: I'm not trying to be a douche, but that was sort of the argument for holding people indefinitely without trial at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graibh. Of course, that wasn't enough so they had to go with the enemy combatants thing.

It seems to me, that this is another specialty matter all together (enemy combatants).    In any case, I believe it's a stretch to go from this to saying that those outside of the U.S. don't deserve basic human rights.

If it is, I'm not sure why. But in any event, the very same argument you mentioned, has been used.



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#24
RE: That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
(June 25, 2018 at 9:04 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(June 25, 2018 at 2:01 am)Minimalist Wrote: I don't think he gets out at all.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...amendment/

Do you know this person, or did you cherry pick the internet; to find one example that suits your purposes?  
Again, I would say, I don't know anyone who would agree that "people not born in the US don't deserve those 'god given' rights"

I can't answer how Min did his research, but I understand that such views are common among Dominionists, and to a lesser extent a significant section of evangelicals.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#25
RE: That's odd...I thought we were a nation of laws?
Make no mistake, the rule of law only matters as much as the people in power want it to.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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