Battle of Vukovar

[LastPoet]

I do not know Croatian, so I do not know language specifics.

I didn't knew of this battle until you spoke of it. Surely there are survivours you can ask about it.

What I do know, is that there isn't a square milimeter in this continent, that had no blood spilled on it. Specially ol'Yugoslavia, former Illirya.

[Mister Agenda]

Do you have an explanation how I don't know that? I've studied quite a bit of Croatian history, and me not knowing something like that would require an explanation.

You would be better positioned than I to answer that question, don;t you think?

That was a very kind response, considering.

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And what is the simplest explanation for the common belief that Jesus rose from the dead? Is it also a massive conspiracy? Or is it that some stories get popular among ignorant people? If it is that some stories get popular among ignorant people, why would it be different for the Battle of Vukovar?

That an alternate explanation may be more plausible for Jesus returning from the dead has to do with our inability to confirm that any person who is really dead has ever resurrected. Entropy shows the difficulty of raising someone from the dead (like 'un-cooking' an egg') so it would take advanced aliens or magic to pull it off. Those seem less likely than the naturalistic alternatives: he wasn't really dead, the body was stolen, it's just a story, a different person claimed to be him after his death (note that people seemed to have trouble recognizing him after his supposed resurrection), and no doubt some possibilities I haven't considered. Compared to 'he rose from the dead after three days' based on stories written down decades later that we have no way of confirming any of the major plot points on, it's more reasonable to take the skeptical view.

War is commonplace. Every part of the battle described is composed of things we know to be possible, including the cleanup and reconstruction (which cost billions) after. You can go to Vukovar and still see damage to buildings from bullets and shrapnel. The site of the massacre is a mass grave.

The simplest and most plausible explanation for Vukovar making global news and inspiring multiple books and movies is that it actually happened. The simplest and most plausible explanation for your skepticism that it happened is that you've fallen into a conspiracy rabbit hole. Good luck down there.

[Anomalocaris]

The millions that may have been said to have witnessed and recorded the sun rising in the west on dec 22nd 422 AD is, upon comprehensive examination of all of our knowledge and understandings, far less credible than the 2 people who witnessed and recorded the sun as having risen in the east the following day.

I hope you can see why.

[The Grand Nudger]

Saying the battle did not happen requires explaining the presence of a common belief that it did happen, the most likely explanation being a conspiracy of people fostering the impression that it did happen.

And what is the simplest explanation for the common belief that Jesus rose from the dead? Is it also a massive conspiracy? Or is it that some stories get popular among ignorant people? If it is that some stories get popular among ignorant people, why would it be different for the Battle of Vukovar?

but the why, was in service to ethnic cleansing.

What is "ethnic cleansing"?

By the way, does anyone have an idea what the name "Vukovar" means? I have been thinking about that for quite a while, I think that it means "the city of moisture", that "Vuk-" comes from the zeroth grade of the Indo-European root *welk (moisture). The syllabic 'l' regularly turned to 'u' in Old Croatian (compare, for example, late Old Church Slavonic "слньце" and modern Croatian "sunce").

This is the point at which I ask whether your parents were people involved in the action but never apprehended, lol.  

Know what I used to do, when people on my list said "know nothing, see nothing, hear nothing"..?

I kicked them in the fucking stomach to make it easier to ziptie their genocidal asses.  Get on the ground Granny Serb...you always knew this was coming.  Off to the motherfucking gulag you go!  Lemme guess.....you don;t know nothin bout that either.

[FlatAssembler]

You can go to Vukovar and still see damage to buildings from bullets and shrapnel.

I've been to Vukovar quite a few times and I've seen nothing like that.

The simplest and most plausible explanation for your skepticism that it happened is that you've fallen into a conspiracy rabbit hole.

Well, yes, I used to believe that the Earth is flat and that the Moon is a hologram. But don't you think I've learnt how to recognize pseudoscience by that? Pseudoscience attempts to convince you by bombarding you with controversial statements you have no clue on how to evaluate. Doesn't that sound exactly like the mainstream history of the Vukovar battle? It bombards me with extraordinary claims (like that bombs exist, that many many many Serbs wanted to kill all the Croats...) I have no clue how to verify.

The millions that may have been said to have witnessed and recorded the sun rising in the west on dec 22nd 422 AD is, upon comprehensive examination of all of our knowledge and understandings, far less credible than the 2 people who witnessed and recorded the sun as having risen in the east the following day.

I hope you can see why.

Because the Sun rising on the west is not in line with our understanding of how the universe works. Well, bombs existing are also not in line with my understanding of how the universe works. They seem to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. It says that the efficiency of a heat engine must be less than 100%. In a bomb, you are supposed to put very little heat to activate it, yet get tremendous amount of mechanical energy and heat from it. Its efficiency as a heat engine would have to be much greater than 100%.

I kicked them in the fucking stomach to make it easier to ziptie their genocidal asses. Get on the ground Granny Serb...you always knew this was coming. Off to the motherfucking gulag you go! Lemme guess.....you don;t know nothin bout that either.

Look, I am a Croat, so I am certainly not supporting genocides of the Croats. I am simply wondering, if they actually happened, where is the evidence?

[LastPoet]

Technically, combustion engines have a bomb blast in them every time the cylinder squeezes the explosive athmosphere.

Much of it is lost dissipating the heat, so the material won't melt with successive explosions. Despite judicious use of lube, some energy is lost to drag, in the form of heat.

How exactly an example of the 2nd law of thermodynamics disproves it?

[Anomalocaris]

They seem to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. It says that the efficiency of a heat engine must be less than 100%. In a bomb, you are supposed to put very little heat to activate it, yet get tremendous amount of mechanical energy and heat from it. Its efficiency as a heat engine would have to be much greater than 100%.

No, you are confusing the heat input with heat trigger.   The heat input into the bomb is the chemical energy stored in the explosive when the ingredients of the explosives were made and put together, not the heat of the fuse that served to trigger the release of the stored chemical energy from the explosive.  The total stored energy is greater than the sum of mechanical and heat energy released when you trigger it.

An analogy is a mouse trap.   The energy released when the trap snaps shut is much greater than the energy put in to trigger the trap.   When the mouse pulls on the cheese he certainly didn’t pull with enough energy to break his own neck and crush his own skull.  Where did the energy of the mouse trap that did this come from?  It came when you set the trap in the first place by winding the torsion spring.

[Mister Agenda]

[quote='FlatAssembler' pid='1785786' dateline='1530866652']
[quote]
You can go to Vukovar and still see damage to buildings from bullets and shrapnel.
[/quote]
I've been to Vukovar quite a few times and I've seen nothing like that.
[quote]

Try asking local officials to show you where you can see examples of the damage.

[quote='FlatAssembler' pid='1785786' dateline='1530866652']
Well, yes, I used to believe that the Earth is flat and that the Moon is a hologram. But don't you think I've learnt how to recognize pseudoscience by that? Pseudoscience attempts to convince you by bombarding you with controversial statements you have no clue on how to evaluate. Doesn't that sound exactly like the mainstream history of the Vukovar battle? It bombards me with extraordinary claims (like that bombs exist, that many many many Serbs wanted to kill all the Croats...) I have no clue how to verify.[quote]

Judging from your inability to believe in the prosaic claim that the battle of Vukovar actually happened, I'd say you still have a ways to go on being considered to competently evaluate. There's footage, dude, it was in the news globally when it was happening.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/df/43/...4546de.jpg

[quote='FlatAssembler' pid='1785786' dateline='1530866652']
Look, I am a Croat, so I am certainly not supporting genocides of the Croats. I am simply wondering, if they actually happened, where is the evidence?
[/quote]

https://inavukic.files.wordpress.com/201...r-1991.jpg

[Pat Mustard]

Damn, did a little research and this is one stupid conspiracy theory. This is a battle that involved thousands of people and destroyed a whole city, all less than 30 years ago.

What evidence are you looking for exactly? Like, what do you need to be shown to prove it's real?

Why would saying that Vukuvar never happened be a conspiracy theory?

Because it is a bunch of nutjobs trying to make out that there's a giant conspiracy to pretend that a major battle happened in the town of Vukovar during the wars of break up of Yugoslavia.

[The Grand Nudger]

Look, I am a Croat, so I am certainly not supporting genocides of the Croats. I am simply wondering, if they actually happened, where is the evidence?

You mean, other than the testimony of participants, combat footage, tons of uo recovered, dead bodies, tens of thousands expelled, continuing casualties, immense cost, alteration of national borders, and war crimes verdicts...........................?