Extremists: a question and a talk

[WinterHold]

[ReptilianPeon]

The Quran is supposed to be confusing? That's a new one! No wonder I find it so confusing. I guess Allah has decided not to guide me. That's why I'm on this website. It's all Allah's fault!

It would be great if Allah could guide me. I'm waiting for Allah to send another angel down and I'd believe in an instant. Or, better yet, for Allah to be a stranger on the bus. I really would.

Do you not think that if the Quran was less confusing it would be better for everyone? There would be fewer arguments and wars and everyone would instantly know it was the truth. Can you explain why the Quran necessarily has to be confusing?

[WinterHold]

The Quran is supposed to be confusing? That's a new one! No wonder I find it so confusing. I guess Allah has decided not to guide me. That's why I'm on this website. It's all Allah's fault!

It would be great if Allah could guide me. I'm waiting for Allah to send another angel down and I'd believe in an instant. Or, better yet, for Allah to be a stranger on the bus. I really would.

Do you not think that if the Quran was less confusing it would be better for everyone? There would be fewer arguments and wars and everyone would instantly know it was the truth. Can you explain why the Quran necessarily has to be confusing?

No. Follow the verse:

Surah 3, The Quran:
Sahih International

(7) It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

So I guess we got to ask ourselves: "are we among those whose hearts have deviation from the truth, or we're among the ones firm in knowledge who say all of it is from our lord" ?

[chimp3]

Or...maybe "we" don't have to ask ourselves that! But go ahead and suit yourself.

[robvalue]

God gave a message to an angel to tell to this guy (who couldn't read or write) to tell other people so they could write it down, so other people could read it later.

If this isn't the most absurd, unbelievable story and the absolute worst way to try and communicate (while God is standing around silently watching people kill others due to "misunderstanding" the message), I don't know what is. The responsibility for all this stops with the instigator.

To me, only reasonable conclusions here are that either:

1) God was actually about to die or to become unable to communicate in the future

2) God is a complete idiot

3) God desires mass confusion, murder and war over his message (this doesn't go a long way towards the "peace" angle) and for it to look like complete gibberish to anyone not indoctrinated into it

4) God, if there is one, has nothing to do with this in the first place

[Fake Messiah]

[Angrboda]

Yeah, like I said, you're full of shit.  You cherry pick the verses which favor peace, but the Quran can be read in other ways that are just as legitimate as yours.  The only reason you think your ways are the right ones is because you're too blind to see.

If you didn't read what I wrote, and didn't even care to see the context of the verse told to you, it is not my problem. If you don't see an intellectual problem with the video you posted, you have a big problem that I can't help you with.

I read what you wrote. The context was examined in great detail in the video. The surahs you brought in reply weren't even relevant to the argument presented in the video, so what in fuck are you even babbling about? If you had watched the video, you'd know why your arguments were irrelevant. I noticed you didn't address specific claims made in the video, you just dismissed them outright and repeated your standard defense. I don't believe you actually watched the video. Either you didn't watch the video, and you're a liar, or you're so incompetent you can't even reply coherently to an argument.

The only intellectual problem I see is yours.

---

I'll repeat the points for the benefit of the stupid.

1-All the verses that speak about "fighting", speak about "fighting" in the context of war. There was a war against Mohammed -peace be upon him-, and his followers were tortured and killed, so he fought back, with these verses being the command for him to fight back.

No, they do not. Surah 9:29, the verse in question does not. And even those verses you've presented simply give permission to fight defensively, they do not forbid fighting when defense is not an issue, as in 9:29, so your defense doesn't even work. The context of 9:29 was clear. The only person distorting context is you.

2-Fighting in Islam is prohibited unless to deter aggression; ironically the youtuber you quoted ignored the verses coming down below:

No, he did not ignore those verses. He responded explicitly to such claims. No, you're just lying again.

[Angrboda]

[Angrboda]

[WinterHold]