Extremists: a question and a talk

[WinterHold]

I have read the Koran twice. Translation by Abdullah Yusef Ali. That is why I left the Chisti Sufi order. The Koran is as violent as the Judeo-Christian Babble. If we want a peaceful world we need to leave this Bronze Aged bullshit behind and start asking what really will produce a peaceful world. The Abrahamic religions have overwhelmingly proved themselves incapable.

Looking at the world; violence is pretty much the answer preferred by humans to keep on the peace; don't forget that the current state of "relative peace" is very fragile, and only kept by the power of nuclear deterrence that followed WW2, it's more of a "time-out" between the rounds in a boxing match. And it's not religion that is going to burn the fuels of war again, but economy will.

Humans are obviously meant to fight and won't stop until earth is a piece of coal. I don't see Allah responsible for that, but I see secular order that only makes sense in a nationalist forest-like world as the cause; the main responsible cause.

A situation that everybody could've avoided if charity was given, mothers were respected, corruption was ended, killing was punished, stealing was punished, adultery was punished, wars were ended against the innocent.

The Quran is advocating peace in so many verses; I can quote them for you.

[chimp3]

I have read the Koran twice. Translation by Abdullah Yusef Ali. That is why I left the Chisti Sufi order. The Koran is as violent as the Judeo-Christian Babble. If we want a peaceful world we need to leave this Bronze Aged bullshit behind and start asking what really will produce a peaceful world. The Abrahamic religions have overwhelmingly proved themselves incapable.

Looking at the world; violence is pretty much the answer preferred by humans to keep on the peace; don't forget that the current state of "relative peace" is very fragile, and only kept by the power of nuclear deterrence that followed WW2, it's more of a "time-out" between the rounds in a boxing match. And it's not religion that is going to burn the fuels of war again, but economy will.

Humans are obviously meant to fight and won't stop until earth is a piece of coal. I don't see Allah responsible for that, but I see secular order that only makes sense in a nationalist forest-like world as the cause; the main responsible cause.

A situation that everybody could've avoided if charity was given, mothers were respected, corruption was ended, killing was punished, stealing was punished, adultery was punished, wars were ended against the innocent.

The Quran is advocating peace in so many verses; I can quote them for you.

If humans are meant to fight then who meant that to be?

[Joods]

Man is greedy and that is why we will never have peace on this planet. Because person A must always out do person B because person A is jealous and must win at all costs. Person A must always be richer, better, smarter than person B. And instead of just minding their own damn business, person A goes on a mission to be "The Best" at all costs. Others see this and either take that as a challenge or think person A is just a fool to be ignored. However, the narcissist in person A cannot stand being ignored, therefore they swear everyone is their enemy and thus begins the start of person A's need to get The Man. "To hell with being nice! I must show "society" what their place is, for they are beneath me and I must make them tow the line! "

And so the hatred for one another begins.

[Foxaèr]

The Quran is advocating peace in so many verses; I can quote them for you.

The irony of scripture, no matter the religion, is that just as many verses advocating peace can be found as those advocating discord.

[WinterHold]

?
I brought forth the evidence from the same book you accuse; bring an opposing evidence or bring an opposing evidence.

I'm not full of shit. I pooped recently.

I already did, but you just ignored it.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-55130-p...pid1784020

That is not evidence. That is a person playing the same broken record which was broken here over and over and over, cherry picking that I commented on and replied to over and over and over; but here's my reply again:

1-All the verses that speak about "fighting", speak about "fighting" in the context of war. There was a war against Mohammed -peace be upon him-, and his followers were tortured and killed, so he fought back, with these verses being the command for him to fight back.

2-Fighting in Islam is prohibited unless to deter aggression; ironically the youtuber you quoted ignored the verses coming down below:

Sura 60, The Quran:
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
( 9 )   Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

and

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 55 )   Call upon your Lord in humility and privately; indeed, He does not like transgressors.
( 56 )   And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.

and

[/url]

[url=https://quran.com/7/56?translations]https://quran.com/7/56?translations=
Sura 7, The Quran:

Sahih International

(56) And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.

and:

https://quran.com/5/32?translations=86,29
Surah 5, the Quran:

Sahih International

(32) Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

What you brought is not an evidence. What you brought is a storm inside a cup. زوبعة في فنجان
Shame that he criticizes Islam, and forget about the terrible nightmare non-Muslims caused by creating atomic bombs and modern war machines. Big shame.

[The Grand Nudger]

Categories 2 and 3 have a fair amount of overlap, lol.

But if they are true believers then they must not be extremists necessarily? Are you suggesting that violence is normal? If so, then wouldn't the extremists be the peaceful ones, like Atlas actually. I'm a bit confused.

The people are confusing, the phenomenon isn;t.  Extremists live at the fringe of [whatever they think magic book is saying to them.  

-but yeah..violence is normal for human beings, in many ways, many forms. Never make the mistake of thinking that you have a "peaceful" true believer...... of -anything-....... on your hands. You just haven;t crossed their lines yet, or they haven;t.

You can see his trapdoor already. "Deter aggression". We here in the land of the great satan call that a preemptive strike. A longer view of history and human behavior calls it pretext.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I have read the Koran twice. Translation by Abdullah Yusef Ali. That is why I left the Chisti Sufi order. The Koran is as violent as the Judeo-Christian Babble. If we want a peaceful world we need to leave this Bronze Aged bullshit behind and start asking what really will produce a peaceful world. The Abrahamic religions have overwhelmingly proved themselves incapable.

The only way to have a peaceful world is to kill everyone who disagrees with you.  By that time it might be down to just one person.  It's the King Asa theory of peace.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_so...09-11.html  6 pictures

Jesus is a killer.  He'll roast your ass if you don't kiss his.

[chimp3]

I have read the Koran twice. Translation by Abdullah Yusef Ali. That is why I left the Chisti Sufi order. The Koran is as violent as the Judeo-Christian Babble. If we want a peaceful world we need to leave this Bronze Aged bullshit behind and start asking what really will produce a peaceful world. The Abrahamic religions have overwhelmingly proved themselves incapable.

The only way to have a peaceful world is to kill everyone who disagrees with you.  By that time it might be down to just one person.  It's the King Asa theory of peace.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_so...09-11.html  6 pictures

Jesus is a killer.  He'll roast your ass if you don't kiss his.

So is Muhammed!

[Angrboda]

I already did, but you just ignored it.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-55130-p...pid1784020

That is not evidence. That is a person playing the same broken record which was broken here over and over and over, cherry picking that I commented on and replied to over and over and over; but here's my reply again:

1-All the verses that speak about "fighting", speak about "fighting" in the context of war. There was a war against Mohammed -peace be upon him-, and his followers were tortured and killed, so he fought back, with these verses being the command for him to fight back.

Wrong.

2-Fighting in Islam is prohibited unless to deter aggression; ironically the youtuber you quoted ignored the verses coming down below:

Wrong again.

Sura 60, The Quran:
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
( 9 )   Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

and

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 55 )   Call upon your Lord in humility and privately; indeed, He does not like transgressors.
( 56 )   And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.

and

[/url]

[url=https://quran.com/7/56?translations]https://quran.com/7/56?translations=
Sura 7, The Quran:

Sahih International

(56) And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.

and:

https://quran.com/5/32?translations=86,29
Surah 5, the Quran:

Sahih International

(32) Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

What you brought is not an evidence. What you brought is a storm inside a cup. زوبعة في فنجان
Shame that he criticizes Islam, and forget about the terrible nightmare non-Muslims caused by creating atomic bombs and modern war machines. Big shame.

Yeah, like I said, you're full of shit. You cherry pick the verses which favor peace, but the Quran can be read in other ways that are just as legitimate as yours. The only reason you think your ways are the right ones is because you're too blind to see.

[brewer]

Any time you use religion(s) as a justification for any action(s)...................... you're wrong.