Afterlife vs Not

[Anomalocaris]

But, that trillion or five or ten will be up at some point and most likely the human race will be done long long before this. The current estimate is 13 billion years from beginning too now. Human existence in that time compared to a 24hr clock is not even one tick of the second hand. A long time indeed. But none of that time before mattered until consciousness observed it. If we develop the science to defend against every threat imaginable we can't possibly stop the degradation of the entire universe. When consciousness ceases weather we have religious myth or the highest science, all belief/knowledge ceases too. I do prefer a scientific approach, religion for the most part has done much damage.

One might take it the other way and say consciousness is utterly irrelevent to the universe, and matters only to our vainglorious but insignificant selves

If we modify the universe to defend against every threat, how is the universe not upgraded by our own vainglorious standard rather than degraded? Afterall, we do consider walls and roofs that defends us against the cold and wet an upgrade to the bare patch of dirt on which we might otherwise sleep.

I agree, I create my own purpose daily, see the poem "Invictus". However I am afraid I cannot see how we can be as gods. Clinical immortality, control of our environment, populating the edges of the universe, all of these yes. But this too shall pass.

It's not quite worthwhile unless it promises to satisfy the most irrational whim of our most extravagant vainity? And how is this approach not asking for religion to come and do you damage?

[Malfader13]

Whats your point of these questions?

Your OP seems to view the belief in no afterlife as negating the value of existing. My point is that if that idea is true then wouldn't knowing that you are going to sleep negate the value of being awake? It isn't exactly the same because we all know we are gong to wake up the next day, but similar in that we begin the day from sleep and end it in sleep, much like we are born from nothing and return to nothing after we die.

Well, I cannot personally equate sleep with death. Every one I know has recovered from sleep and been able to tell me the experience of it if I had the occasion to ask, or they to tell me. I however have not had an experience of a consciousness coming back from death to give me an account of the experience. So I go to sleep nightly, and almost as often wondering if I will wake, hoping I will, thinking most likely I will. You bring up an interesting train of thought I will have to ride out "we are born from nothing and return to nothing." That is, are we actually born from "nothing". I am really going to have to toss this around for awhile. Thank you.

[LWP17]

I don't believe in a(n) afterlife. Once you die, you die.

[Light of Truth]

I am a materialist Atheist and therefore I do not believe in an afterlife.

[Loki_999]

This leads me in thought that nothing matters in the end, and I don't mean just my personal end.

Nihilism is the only conclusion that can be made from this path of logic, to me.

How do you who are true atheists reconcile this within yourselves without becoming a nihilist?

Its an argument put forward by theists often, that atheists must be nihilists. I don't understand why.

We live, we experience, we endure. What is the point? To live, experience, endure! To love, to laugh, to enjoy life and all its wonders. Sure, bad days and things happen, but overall its better than death, which is a complete lack of sensation and experience.

Do bacteria, dogs, cats, cows ask questions like this? Or do they just get on with their lives? There is an imperative within all life and this is a desire to stay alive and propagate the species. This is twisted sometimes, for example with certain spiders where the male is eaten by the female during mating, but this is done to help its offspring survive.

We are hardwired to live anyway, and you only get one credit to play. So you may as well enjoy it regardless of your beliefs.

Betting all your money on an unproven afterlife and spending your life sucking the cock of an imaginary being is not my idea of fun.

[Lethe]

I have and always will exist in one fashion or another, even if it were or will be a state of nothingness. The concept of a never-ceasing sentience though? Not so much.

[Malfader13]

We live, we experience, we endure. What is the point? To live, experience, endure! To love, to laugh, to enjoy life and all its wonders. Sure, bad days and things happen, but overall its better than death, which is a complete lack of sensation and experience.

I totally agree with you on this point even if there did happen to be an afterlife. I try to remind myself even in the worst moments that I am still alive and every experience is a valuable experience.

Do bacteria, dogs, cats, cows ask questions like this? Or do they just get on with their lives? There is an imperative within all life and this is a desire to stay alive and propagate the species. This is twisted sometimes, for example with certain spiders where the male is eaten by the female during mating, but this is done to help its offspring survive.

I am not sure, I don't speak bacteria, dog, cat or cow, and they don't speak english, but I doubt they do. However our level of consciousness, as far as we know, is unique in the universe. I have never seen my dog or cat admiring the paintings and pictures on my walls so for them they are unimportant. In fact for them their life would be no different if those things never existed. We humans, however, seem to be compelled to do much more then just "stay alive and propagate the species. Why? By accident a group of creatures crawled up out of the muck and said "I want to understand the things around me." We are the only beings that I know of that will knowingly risk that very existence, going against that imperative, for any number of causes.

Betting all your money on an unproven afterlife and spending your life sucking the cock of an imaginary being is not my idea of fun.

Again I agree with you here, but please don't presume that I believe in any kind of anthropomorphic deity. I see "God", if there is such a thing, as the driving force in matter and energy, that seeks consciousness. The keystone particle that is matter and energy and maybe neither.

[Loki_999]

We are the only beings that I know of that will knowingly risk that very existence, going against that imperative, for any number of causes.

Robert Winston has some interesting things to say about this. Why we do foolish things that seem to go against the imperative to survive, and it is also present in many other species. It's to do with advertising. Advertising yourself (or more correct to say, your genes) are good for mating with. To show that you are strong, the best, the most fit.

Bungee jumping, driving recklessly, whatever, it can be linked with us (men especially) showing off our prowess, like a peacock with its tail.

There is a species of bird in Africa which when the flock sits in a tree, the upmost position, the lookout position, the most riskiest position, it taken by the strongest bird in the flock. Common sense would say, if you are the strongest, force your way to the bottom and let some weak sucker get eaten, but that would not attract the interest of the females.

Female humans you may have noticed tend to take less risks on average... well unless you include driving while talking on the mobile and fixing their makeup all at the same time.

[Rhizomorph13]

Female humans you may have noticed tend to take less risks on average... well unless you include driving while talking on the mobile and fixing their makeup all at the same time.

They are engaging in that risky behavior for the same reason. They are probably on their mobile talking to their friend about the party they will be going to while putting on makeup to attract the hot boys that will be there.

[theVOID]

They still think they can multi-task....

Sorry ladies, but we're all more analogous to a P4 than a Core 2 Duo.