Are there any Christian proselytizers left in this subforum?

[The Grand Nudger]

-But that's the whole game.  We go shot for shot trying to have difficult discussions until one of us starts slurring their words! 

Well, I'm sober now. We can can start round 2 if you want or just leave it at: "I value theists. You don't."

We might as well just leave it though. We don't see eye to eye. As a show of good faith, I won't even mention that MLK and Gandhi were both incredible human beings, whose work was heavily informed by their theistic outlook.

You value theism, I don't.  That mlk or ghandi (or anyone else) drew from their personally held faith is irrelevant to me and frankly, to the discussion, unless there could be no acheiving those things in the absence of the same faith.  Those are the achievements of men who happen to have had a faith, and most do.  Not the achievements of a faith through men.

For every MLK or Ghandi in the world....each selectively employing their faith to their own ends....I could find you a long list of pious assholes (and that's excluding that fact that both men were pious assholes in their own right - despite our latter day lionization of both). It's more than a little silly to confer the deference due to either man for their own achievements to whatever faith they happened to be born with. Had they reversed faiths or no faith, with respect to each other, what would the difference have been? I happen to be a gators fan. Would you do the same for any achievement in my life? Would you contend that the things I do add value to a college football franchise? Do my actions offer cogent countercomment on the shortcomings of the franchise?

Both men, hilariously, commented on the failures of religion and superstition. Each equally certain that they were doing it right and the others had it wrong. In this, and this is the well from which theistic asshattery springs, they were equals with those they criticized. Thank the gods they had better ideas than those other assholes, eh?

[Drich]

actually they do grow in italy naturally dumb ass they simply did not originate there. to grow naturally means to plant in the ground and through conventional farming techniques for a given region they will grow. the following is a guide to naturally grown tomatoes in the different reigions of itially: https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fea...-tomatoes/

Pineapples will not naturally grow because the soil is not loose enough and for most of the region it is too cold. pineapple need tropical weather year round. Otherwise they have to be grown indoors.

---

but again, "we don't need to get bogged down in technicalities," like TRUTH AND FACTS !

I was just joking

and I was having fun

---

Serious question:

Does God like pineapple on his pizza?

Remember, though, that god only concerns himself with a very small area of the world.

actually no.. the flood was a bigger event, the exodus encompassed egypt which was a world power at the time which more or less encompassed the known world, then the jews were captured by the philistines God gave samson the power to take out their capitol building. the babylonians were handed over to the syrians (the writing on the wall)  Again one world power being toppled by an up and coming world power. (both had holding well outside the little circle, ) Not to mention the times the jews miraculously fended off those world powers. then you have the works of the apostles who's mission work which is recorded in the bible, span the whole of the roman empire Galacia, Rome, corinth, and beyond in to what was known as asia and asia minor. (baltic states and russia as well as India.)

Your little meme is beyond wrong, yet I doubt you nor your buddies will care. in your world the accusation so long as it feels right, is all any of you need to fully support or believe something.

For those of you not so closed minded the reason the bible does not span beyond the known world at the time is who would be there to provide the writing materials and keep and recopy the texts as they had to do in the major cities in order for us to have a copy of the bible? It's not like if st thomas went to india he could just up load his writings to the churches to the cloud. the writing had to be kept in a very specific environment and then also cared for and copied when they decayed. That was the job of a scriptorium. They preserved scrolls and copied old works. Without this infrastructure in the fringes of the known world how would anything be preserved? It couldn't which is why we don't have really anything from those region in and around the first century not written on stone. (which took a whole nother set of skills/team)

Either way the map is wrong. if you were to just open your bibles you would know that, but no most of you need meme's to learn/think for you.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, attempting to add missing credibility to fairy tales..by reference to other fairy tales..... that don't exist.  

Choice.

[Drich]

We don't need to get bogged down in technicalities

actually they do grow in italy naturally dumb ass they simply did not originate there. to grow naturally means to plant in the ground and through conventional farming techniques for a given region they will grow. the following is a guide to naturally grown tomatoes in the different reigions of itially: https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fea...-tomatoes/

Pineapples will not naturally grow because the soil is not loose enough and for most of the region it is too cold. pineapple need tropical weather year round. Otherwise they have to be grown indoors.

---

but again, "we don't need to get bogged down in technicalities," like TRUTH AND FACTS !

To grow naturally means to grow without being planted or cared for by humans.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grow%20wild

Even the article you linked makes a point of saying that tomatoes were imported from south America.

So you

• Resort to name calling
  
• Define your position into existence
  
• Cite a source that actually says the opposite of what you want it to
  

Yeah.  Let's not get bogged down in technicalities.

BYEEEEEE!

moron... tomatoes grow naturally in ITALY!!! Matter of fact according to my link there are certain tomatoes that can only be grown in certain regions!!! That is why tomatoes are a big art of the diet. From the link I provided: "The tomato is integral to so many . In fact, it’s hard to imagine the country’s cuisine without it."
are you so f-ing stupid to not know that italians eat tomatoes? Where do you think they come from if they are not grown in ITALY?!?!?!

IF clicked on the link I provided it gives you a list of indigenous tomatoes.. may be your dumb ass doesn't know what indigenous means.. maybe you should have look it up before "grown naturally." 

From the link:
"It grew well in the Italian climate and gradually became popular,..."
Then...
"As time passed, different varieties of tomatoes emerged, all flavoursome and well adapted to local conditions. As is the way in Italy, these became firmly associated with their particular regions, and with particular ."

  Dumb ass the party is over. What  moron argues tomatoes do not grow naturally in italy? I tell you. it is the dummy who think grown naturally is synonymous with originates from... which is why you looked up grows naturally. You were in too deep and your trying to play word games to save face, but I am here to make sure you either own your failure or make you eat crow. 

So once again! I never said tomatoes originated from italy I said tomatoes grow naturally and they do! again my source material proves everything I had to say. You being 'not smart' simply misunderstood what I said, or you being immoral are trying to twist my words so you do not have to own making a mistake..


You know the real funny thing? one of you made the same pineapple joke, not a word from you to them. but with me, you are arguing that italians can't grow tomatoes which is insane as tomato dishes are what they are known for!!!

Thought experiment the ocean looks blue.. arguments in 3...2...1...

---

big black guy who said originally was just out of jail and needed a ride across town so he could be at home when his parole officer called. It was cold so a beanie hat/ski mask camo jacket (woodlands pattern) nasty blue jeans. facial hair.

Well, it's good to see that you take your faith seriously (your racist overtones, notwithstanding), about as seriously as I take it.

According to the new definition of racist I being a minority or a mix breed can not be racist no matter what I say as my 'people' make up less than 1% of the population of this country, which is even less than that of black americans. According to the new black lives matter definition, Only white people can be racist.
and in my case any race who is represented in a greater number can be racist to me, but no matter what I say I can not be racist to them...

Even under the old definition racism is defined as being: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Nothing said in the above was to set this man below me or my race. He was bigger than I am. I am over 6ft and 250lbs this man looked down on me physically he was taller and physically bigger by at lest 50 to 75 pounds hence big black man. and he was black, can't argue that.  He told me he was fresh out of the local jail, sterotypes aside this is what I was literally told. it was cold he was wearing a beanie type of ski mask Camo jacket I have a similar one. nasty/stained blue jeans they just looked worn and dirty no racial thing there, people of all races wear nasty blue jeans that is more an economic statement more than anything else, and facial hair. I sport a bear as well not a black thing.

You may not like the term black, but where I come from most black people hate the term african american, as they were not born in Africa. Most want to be seen and treated as naturally born american citizens, equal in all aspects. and if you must classify race then black or black american when comparing black people of other regions.

[Clueless Morgan]

moron... tomatoes grow naturally in ITALY!!! Matter of fact according to my link there are certain tomatoes that can only be grown in certain regions!!! That is why tomatoes are a big art of the diet.

*sigh* Tomatoes are a big part of Italian diets because they were introduced from South America to Italy.

IF clicked on the link I provided it gives you a list of indigenous tomatoes.. may be your dumb ass doesn't know what indigenous means.. maybe you should have look it up before "grown naturally." 

Perhaps you should look up what indigenous means:

in·dig·e·nous
inˈdijənəs
originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

indigenous adjective
in·dig·e·nous | \ in-ˈdi-jə-nəs  \
1 : produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
indigenous plants

indigenous
[in-dij-uh-nuhs]
adjective
originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country; native (often followed by to):
innate; inherent; natural (usually followed by to):

Synonym for indigenous
NATIVE, INDIGENOUS, ENDEMIC, ABORIGINAL mean belonging to a locality. NATIVE implies birth or origin in a place or region and may suggest compatibility with it. native tribal customs  INDIGENOUS applies to that which is not only native but which, as far as can be determined, has never been introduced or brought from elsewhere.  indigenous plants  ENDEMIC implies being peculiar to a region.  a disease endemic in Africa  ABORIGINAL implies having no known others preceding in occupancy of a particular region.  the aboriginal peoples of Australia


If your argument is God doesn't like pineapple on his pizza because pineapple doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy, then your argument would also apply to the tomato which doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy.

You know the real funny thing? one of you made the same pineapple joke, not a word from you to them.

I invite you to review my response:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-56628-p...pid1824172

[Crossless2.0]

If your argument is God doesn't like pineapple on his pizza because pineapple doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy, then your argument would also apply to the tomato which doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy.

As I've recently discovered, my favorite pizza from my favorite local pizza joint is better if I order it without sauce, and simply have them liberally brush the crust with olive oil -- the way the Good Lord really intended.

Fucking tomato-culture-appropriators . . . 

[Drich]

moron... tomatoes grow naturally in ITALY!!! Matter of fact according to my link there are certain tomatoes that can only be grown in certain regions!!! That is why tomatoes are a big art of the diet.

*sigh* Tomatoes are a big part of Italian diets because they were introduced from South America to Italy.

IF clicked on the link I provided it gives you a list of indigenous tomatoes.. may be your dumb ass doesn't know what indigenous means.. maybe you should have look it up before "grown naturally." 

Perhaps you should look up what indigenous means:

in·dig·e·nous
inˈdijənəs
originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.

indigenous adjective
in·dig·e·nous | \ in-ˈdi-jə-nəs  \
1 : produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
indigenous plants

indigenous
[in-dij-uh-nuhs]
adjective
originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country; native (often followed by to):
innate; inherent; natural (usually followed by to):

Synonym for indigenous
NATIVE, INDIGENOUS, ENDEMIC, ABORIGINAL mean belonging to a locality. NATIVE implies birth or origin in a place or region and may suggest compatibility with it. native tribal customs  INDIGENOUS applies to that which is not only native but which, as far as can be determined, has never been introduced or brought from elsewhere.  indigenous plants  ENDEMIC implies being peculiar to a region.  a disease endemic in Africa  ABORIGINAL implies having no known others preceding in occupancy of a particular region.  the aboriginal peoples of Australia


If your argument is God doesn't like pineapple on his pizza because pineapple doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy, then your argument would also apply to the tomato which doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy.

You know the real funny thing? one of you made the same pineapple joke, not a word from you to them.

I invite you to review my response:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-56628-p...pid1824172

  Here's your problem... besides being cluless.. you think indigenous = grown in italy because that is what you are responding to.

I said if God wanted pineapples on pizza pineapples they would grow in italy

Then like a dumb ass you said:

Tomatoes don't naturally grow in Italy but they're put on all pizzas.

To which I argued that the tomato does indeed naturally grow in italy, then posted a reference that showed not only do they grow they thrive in italy. Not only that there are certain species that will only grow in certain areas of italy which lends it's self to very unique regional dishes. So while the tomato itself is not indigenous there are species that were developed and grown naturally in certain regions of italy. So there are indeed species of tomatoes that are indigenous to italy That aside, and before you attempted to move the goal posts with your last post, I'm saying naturally grown = the definition you posted. "can grow without help by man in a region..." You have since moved the goal posts to make naturally grown to only mean an indigenous plant. As in tomatoes are not indiginous... So the fuck what moron... no one claimed they were not even you in your first post! go back to what you posted and read my quote, then read what you read!:
https://atheistforums.org/thread-56628-p...pid1824172

Pineapples in general will not survive the italian climate and for the most part soil conditions are also wrong. not to say they can't grow them hydroponically, but that is not natural growth is it sport? While tomatoes in italy can grow wild. do you understand clueless moron?   (moron instead of morgan I think you have a new name) 

I was right in my last post to you.. You moronically thought indigenousness = naturally grown now you are desperatly on your heels trying to shift what you said 'naturally grown and replace it with indigiouness.. Look you intellectually dishonest pos you have been caught red handedly wrong! OWN IT! Suck it up. you made an honest mistake and now you are selling your soul not to be wrong.

Which should make an honest person reflect in how he sees and deals with every situation when he is caught wrong and pride will not allow you to conceed. Seriously look at what you are arguing. if stereotypes were allowed you are trying to tell me the one country on the planet known for it's use of the tomato in all the dishes it is known for, you claim that fruit does not grow in the country... how fing stupid is that? yet pride demands you hold your ground because you are not a dumb christian so you must be right some how.

Consider this... YOU ARE WRONG HERE WITHOUT DOUBT. Everyone see it. If you were an introspective man/woman this would be a great opportunity to make an adjustment across the board, and at least listen to arguments before you jump in head first with your 'feelings of knowledge.' Then allow for correction when there is proof beyond proof that you are wrong or misspoke. Because if your feelings of knowledge are wrong here and it does not matter, what will happen when you find out your wrong about God, and pride like here will not even allow you to listen..

[Clueless Morgan]

If your argument is God doesn't like pineapple on his pizza because pineapple doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy, then your argument would also apply to the tomato which doesn't grow naturally (indigenously) in Italy.

As I've recently discovered, my favorite pizza from my favorite local pizza joint is better if I order it without sauce, and simply have them liberally brush the crust with olive oil -- the way the Good Lord really intended.

Have you ever done pesto instead of tomato sauce? Delish. Papa Murphy's has a creamy garlic sauce that is to die for, too. So good. Both better than tomato sauce.

[Lek]

I just came to the conclusion that if God really exists and we really want to know him, then he will reveal himself to us. I came to the realization that I never argued even one person, that I know of, into changing their beliefs about God and nobody never argued me into disbelieving in God. The same goes with politics.  Nobody listens to anybody else in the political section of this forum unless they share the same views.  We can't help but reflect our beliefs and values as we carry out our daily lives, so my views become apparent to others as we interact, but I don't try to start conversations about spiritual beliefs with someone who has no interest.  

As far as the future of any religion goes, if God is in it he will sustain it, if he's not then it will eventually fail.  There are ebbs and flows throughout history, but Christianity will die or flourish based on its own merits.  All this arguing and mocking won't matter.  As the writer of Ecclesiastes would put it, I kinda came to the feeling that this forum is nothing but "a chasing after the wind".  This is nothing personal towards anyone here, but rather just a general statement of my feelings.

[DodosAreDead]

If God had meant for pineapples to be on pizza, there would be pineapples in Italy!

Oh no. Be a theist all you like, but don't disrespect pineapples on pizza.