Are there any Christian proselytizers left in this subforum?

[Angrboda]

I just came to the conclusion that if God really exists and we really want to know him, then he will reveal himself to us. I came to the realization that I never argued even one person, that I know of, into changing their beliefs about God and nobody never argued me into disbelieving in God. The same goes with politics.  Nobody listens to anybody else in the political section of this forum unless they share the same views. 

False.

[vulcanlogician]

You value theism, I don't.  That mlk or ghandi (or anyone else) drew from their personally held faith is irrelevant to me and frankly, to the discussion, unless there could be no acheiving those things in the absence of the same faith.  Those are the achievements of men who happen to have had a faith, and most do.  Not the achievements of a faith through men.

Okay. So I agree with your first statement: The things achieved by MLK and Gandhi could very well have been achieved by an individual who had no religion or faith at all. But what I would contest is the bolded portion. It could be argued that both men were "called to action" (so to speak) by a moral conviction that had its root in their personal religiosity. If you have time to spare, I recommend some of King's early sermons (which can be found on YouTube) or Gandhi's religious essays such as "The Message of the Gita."

Of course there is a list of a thousands of theist assholes for every one exemplar I can produce. I agree. Some goes for atheists, btw. But that's not the point I'm making. I DO NOT think that theism (in itself) is good. I think that (generally) theism is a gross mischaracterization of reality. But I do argue that theism is an important part of some people's complete moral breakfast, and that (in some cases, such as Gandhi and MLK) a theistic outlook shows people some grain of truth that secular materialism fails to show most atheists. And to me, THE TRUTH is the highest good. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that said "truth" is unavailable to the secular materialist... I'm simply saying that theism presents it clearly and materialism doesn't.

I am an atheist because (for the most part) theism is a worldview that encourages people to depart from reality and "the truth." But even you can't deny that some devout theists are seekers of the truth as much as (if not more than) the average atheist. And I would argue that some people's theism (as few as they may be) gets them closer to reality than does the atheism of the typical atheist.

[robvalue]

I just came to the conclusion that if God really exists and we really want to know him, then he will reveal himself to us. I came to the realization that I never argued even one person, that I know of, into changing their beliefs about God and nobody never argued me into disbelieving in God. The same goes with politics.  Nobody listens to anybody else in the political section of this forum unless they share the same views.  We can't help but reflect our beliefs and values as we carry out our daily lives, so my views become apparent to others as we interact, but I don't try to start conversations about spiritual beliefs with someone who has no interest.  

As far as the future of any religion goes, if God is in it he will sustain it, if he's not then it will eventually fail.  There are ebbs and flows throughout history, but Christianity will die or flourish based on its own merits.  All this arguing and mocking won't matter.  As the writer of Ecclesiastes would put it, I kinda came to the feeling that this forum is nothing but "a chasing after the wind".  This is nothing personal towards anyone here, but rather just a general statement of my feelings.

I do want to know god. I’ve offered numerous times for him to come have a dialogue with me, anytime he wants. I’d be very interested in doing this. Nothing so far from him.

I actually misread what you’d written to begin with, and I thought you’d made a breakthrough. I thought you said that if god wanted us to know him, he would reveal himself to us. I was going to applaud this. He holds all the power here. Our desires can’t force him into action, I assume.

What you’re really describing is someone achieving a state of mind where they already believe god is real and is interacting with the world; then they will see evidence of it. Of course they will. They will interpret things to fit that conclusion. They will take any unusual/unexplainable occurrences and insert god as an explanation in lieu of any others being available. They will interpret emotions as being some sort of message from god. Maybe they will even convince themselves that they are seeing things that aren’t there.

[Silver]

I do want to know god.

You'll have as much luck knowing Kitanetos.

[Clueless Morgan]

If God had meant for pineapples to be on pizza, there would be pineapples in Italy!

Oh no. Be a theist all you like, but don't disrespect pineapples on pizza.

I have it on good authority that the real god likes pineapple in his pasta sauce, so it stands to reason that he also likes it on his pizza, SO THERE!!!

[Neo-Scholastic]

-delete-

[RoadRunner79]

Looks kinda like a vagina.

Ok... guess I didn't make the connection to the onion article.... must not have read it.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're still talking about the people, and thinsg that even you consider to be seperate from theism.... as though it rescued the ideology, and only a select few, no less.  Hell, I bet you're an antitheist and just don't know it.  

The standard internet response is that yes..ofc some people who are theists do good things. There were even good people, who were Nazis.  That doesn't rescue theism or nazism as an ideology.  If I say "nazism is bad" and a person retorts "yeah, but my great grand uncle Hans was a solid guy!"- they've lost the pulse.