Miracles and their place, and Atheists.

[Mystic]

Somethings I and other Theists, we tend to forget but should keep in mind.

People with regards to truth are three:

1. Those who search it and strive for it, and will find it no matter what no matter where and when. (these are a very few).
2. Those who accept the truth when it's proven at a very high level and far reaching way.
3. Those who no matter what miracles or what proofs are offered, will never believe, and have chosen to reject God and his path no matter what.


Two can be a lot but always depends on how it goes. There been nations that have been guided, and nations who were of 3 and perished.

In Quran out of the towns mentioned in there, only the people of Yonus are an example of a guided nation.

Children of Israel came close, but started rejecting the successors of Moses and relied on scholars as authority and mixed their authority with the God given authority to his Prophets.

When it comes to miracles, we have to keep in mind, there is such thing as hidden beings and magic.

So when magic is acknowledged - a lot of people see despite the vast difference between that and a miracle, that the person is a magician.



Something to keep in mind:

It's possible most of the world will be category of two when Jesus returns to this world.

It's possible they will be of three.


What will determine that is not what Jesus or the Mahdi say,  but the cultural influence and what of good we have united on.


When people rejected the truth, it was usually out of envy or always out of that, and was rebellion to one another.


The flag holders of truth are often attacked the most harshly by humans and their blood becomes the least important, and the oppression them dismissed as hardly a matter to think about.


There is a place for harshness to talk against oppressors, and there is time even with oppressors to speak kind words and lenient soft words, like Moses was told to speak to Pharaoh in beginning.


What is clear, is the proof is hidden to a great extent. And while I don't agree this disproves God,  it does excuse people to disbelieve and succumb to their own deceptions.


The 12 Successors per traditions of Sunni were such that the religion would remain strong and the matter would be strong while they were there, but since the 12th has come but has become hidden, the truth is no longer apparent.

For Christians, no matter what you attribute the Church, it can't ever take the position of Moses or Jesus or Elijah or John, these people are fit to lead humans on path of enlightenment and no one is really fit but people chosen by God for the high leadership.

The point is miracles have their place and if they are hidden, we should keep that in mind, that people are more likely to get lost, and that their accounting is not upon us, and those who don't find the power in themselves or a means to the truth, ultimately, most likely, they will be forgiven.


Arguments no matter how true, because humans err in reasoning, can almost always be suspect to doubts.


Thus miracles have their place.


And today, if you believe in God, I believe it's rational to ask God to guide you to the guide and that the guide will prove to be a guide through miracles at the calibre of Moses/Jesus kind.

It's not only rational but perhaps the only way to achieve true guidance without error and only way to follow truth without falsehood.

Wishing you all peace.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Must admit that in the current age of ubiquitous phone-cameras and instant internet that any 'Miracles' are vanishingly nil and far between.

Aircraft falling from the sky and kittens?

They are seemingly everywhere.

Angels dancing on the heads of pins?

Not so much.

Cheers.

[purplepurpose]

Would be awesome if you could condense your post to a few main points. I had hard time following what your saying.

[Mystic]

Condense and leave only clear points. I had hard time following what your saying.

The summary is because miracles are not in the open,  we should excuse people for their lack of faith in God or the path, because of lack of power to acknowledge it.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Condense and leave only clear points. I had hard time following what your saying.

I'm pretty sure you're one up on me, then.

I'm just guessing my reply just managed to hit the ring. Bugger trying for a bullseye.

[Pat Mustard]

Condense and leave only clear points. I had hard time following what your saying.

The summary is because miracles are not in the open,  we should excuse people for their lack of faith in God or the path, because of lack of power to acknowledge it.

If a miracle is not in the open, then it is not a miracle. If it is not verifiable, it didn't happen.

[Mystic]

The summary is because miracles are not in the open,  we should excuse people for their lack of faith in God or the path, because of lack of power to acknowledge it.

If a miracle is not in the open, then it is not a miracle.  If it is not verifiable, it didn't happen.

Whether what you say is true or false, it's not on topic.

[Homeless Nutter]

Somethings I and other Theists, we tend to forget but should keep in mind.
[...]

Yes - syntax, for example...   

[Mystic]

To be clear, the disbelief or lack of faith out of weakness is not what is to be condemned, but rather, we ought to have forbearance, and compassion, and still see the good in such humans.

The type that is condemned, is when the proofs of the type of miracles shown by Moses is shown, and stubbornness occurs, this stubbornness and hardness of heart, and sheer hate and rebellion, is something else all together, then the weakness type disbelief where as a person may want to the know the truth but just doesn't find themselves convinced by it (This doesn't mean the arguments for it are not sound, it just means the truth is not as clear like when miracles are shown).

Most humans err in reasoning as much as they get it right, thus reasoning in itself is hardly sufficient for most humans.

Miracles that display the power and truth of the guide of time, if they are hidden, then people are over all excused not only for not following the truth but even if they don't pay attention to those who speak it.

---

And the point of the night no matter how long, is to give rest from the day.

The day is when the sun illuminates the truth  and there is no hiding away from it. This would always be good, were it not that a culture of envy spreads in humans often, and the majority rebel against the Guide and the guidance of God, and the followers of the family of the reminder.

So God through his mercy, covers the night, through the darkness of the evil ones, and let's them oppress and hide the truth, so that that people may seek rest and that the envy goes away and that he tries them in a different manner.

The truth being apparent and the light being bright sounds great, but when people become rebellious and envious of it, the dark night must veil it.

Yin/Yang sort of thing..... 

So proofs and it's manifestation has it's place, and hiding proofs and allowing darkness to cover it and hiding the guide from the people, has it's place.

Just like the years in the desert of children of Israel away from Moses had it's place.

[Pat Mustard]

If a miracle is not in the open, then it is not a miracle.  If it is not verifiable, it didn't happen.

Whether what you say is true or false, it's not on topic.

Yes it is. You're claiming that despite all the evidence miracles are happening. I just pointed out the fallacy of your claim.

You can't dissapear what you don't like by fiat on here.