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Existence of Jesus
#1
Existence of Jesus
Are there any atheist here that believe Jesus did not exist?

I think he existed, but I just don't believe he was born of a virgin, that his father was god, and I believe that his miracles are myths.

I just want to see if any atheists believe that he was never even a real person.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful with out having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it to?" -Douglas Adams.Heart
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#2
RE: Existence of Jesus
I don't think that Jesus of the Bible existed, I think rather that Jesus is the personification of the Gnostic "Christ" which was appropriated by the early christian sects.

I also like to keep in mind that there were a bunch of prophets supposedly running around at the time.
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#3
RE: Existence of Jesus
(January 11, 2009 at 8:43 pm)WWLD Wrote: Are there any atheist here that believe Jesus did not exist?

I think he existed, but I just don't believe he was born of a virgin, that his father was god, and I believe that his miracles are myths.

I just want to see if any atheists believe that he was never even a real person.

There is no easily verifiable evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ and more to the point the evidence that does exist is at best anecdotal and some of it fairly obviously flawed (presumed fake).

I have yet to see any hard evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ and the truth is that I have absolutely no idea whether or not he was real but I take the position that there was no Jesus Christ because it stops debating theists getting past first base and gets on their nerves which is often quite amusing { devil }.

If push came to shove I would have to say, no, I have no reason to believe there ever was a literal Jesus Christ (I'm with Luke on that one).

Kyu
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#4
RE: Existence of Jesus
I have no idea whether he existed or not. Of course if he did he was nothing supernatural.

There is no real evidence that he existed. But how many biblical characters are there evidence for exactly? I could throw them all out but some of those people might have actually existed although I'm sure they'd have been very different to how they are actually portrayed in scripture lol!

So I don't know, but of course Jesus wasn't supernatural if he did exist.

I read somewhere - I think it was somewhere on these forums, I'm not sure - that there is an interpretation of the bible that it was actually MARY herself that was born of a virgin - not Jesus. Lol.

Can't remember where I read that lol - and I no nothing of that interpretation but its a funny idea. If its a valid interpretation that would be quite amusing.

Can't remember where I read it lol.
Evf
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#5
RE: Existence of Jesus
(January 11, 2009 at 8:43 pm)WWLD Wrote: Are there any atheist here that believe Jesus did not exist?

I think he existed, but I just don't believe he was born of a virgin, that his father was god, and I believe that his miracles are myths.

I just want to see if any atheists believe that he was never even a real person.

I do not believe in the holy trinity. I reject the idea of the virgin birth of the son of god and the miracle-working he is supposed to have effected.
I reject the idea of dying, coming to life again and then disapearing into the clouds.
The crucified Jesus of the Bible may have been real, but the probability is that he would have been human ( and humans invented the rest ).
HuhA man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
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#6
RE: Existence of Jesus
many historians believe that Jesus of Nazareth have existed. But he were probaly not like the guy in bible. But probably was a he a leader of group of followers and had his own kind of religion. Which he learned from John the Baptist.

BUt that he would have mriacles, that just stories, myths and fairytales.

Hopefully the mythbusters will bust the myth about christianity someday Tongue
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#7
RE: Existence of Jesus
(January 12, 2009 at 12:25 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I have no idea whether he existed or not. Of course if he did he was nothing supernatural.
Ah, but what if he was? Improbable ≠ impossible Big Grin

(January 12, 2009 at 12:25 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I read somewhere - I think it was somewhere on these forums, I'm not sure - that there is an interpretation of the bible that it was actually MARY herself that was born of a virgin - not Jesus. Lol.
Actually, it's both. In Catholicism, both Mary and Jesus were born to virgins. The 'reason' for this is that, if Mary were conceived the normal way, the Original Sin™ would get passed onto Jesus.

It kind of makes sense, if you squint your eyes and look at it sideways.

EDIT: Oh, I don't believe Jesus existed because there is no evidence that suggests he did. Burden of proof and all that.
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right." - Stargate: SG1

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone. - Charles Darwin
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#8
RE: Existence of Jesus
(January 13, 2009 at 6:19 pm)DD_8630 Wrote: Actually, it's both. In Catholicism, both Mary and Jesus were born to virgins. The 'reason' for this is that, if Mary were conceived the normal way, the Original Sin™ would get passed onto Jesus.

I don't think that is right. Only Jesus is supposedly born of a virgin. Mary was supposedly born via the immaculate conception ie she was conceived without inheriting the original sin that every body else is meant to have (excluding Jesus of course whose own conception was even more remarkable- supposedly).
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"

Albert Einstein
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#9
RE: Existence of Jesus
I was raised as a catholic. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary

Mary was not. Her mother was Saint Anne and her father was Joachim
Thats what catholicism teaches anyway
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful with out having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it to?" -Douglas Adams.Heart
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#10
RE: Existence of Jesus
(January 13, 2009 at 7:43 pm)CoxRox Wrote:
(January 13, 2009 at 6:19 pm)DD_8630 Wrote: Actually, it's both. In Catholicism, both Mary and Jesus were born to virgins. The 'reason' for this is that, if Mary were conceived the normal way, the Original Sin™ would get passed onto Jesus.

I don't think that is right. Only Jesus is supposedly born of a virgin. Mary was supposedly born via the immaculate conception ie she was conceived without inheriting the original sin that every body else is meant to have (excluding Jesus of course whose own conception was even more remarkable- supposedly).

(January 13, 2009 at 8:16 pm)WWLD Wrote: I was raised as a catholic. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary

Mary was not. Her mother was Saint Anne and her father was Joachim
Thats what catholicism teaches anyway

Ah, my mistake. Mary's 'Immaculate Conception' was indeed special, but not because she was concieved of a virgin (i.e., her mother had sex, and thus Mary was conceived).

Pope Pius IX in 1854 spoke ex cathedra:

"We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful."

Tongue
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right." - Stargate: SG1

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone. - Charles Darwin
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