Existence of Marcion questioned?

[JairCrawford]

First of all, hi guys! It’s hard to believe it’s been over three years since I’ve come on here. Time flies!

So I just finished reading a post Rene Salm made on his blog and was wondering if anyone else here had seen it. He is now convinced that Marcion may not have existed. I’m wondering what y’all’s thoughts are.

[Peebothuhlu]

Hello!

"Who"
"What"
"I don't know"

XD

[JairCrawford]

Hello!

 "Who"
 "What"
 "I don't know"

 XD

I can’t remember what the rules are for links or else I’d link to the blog post directly, but Rene Salm, from my very limited knowledge, is most well known for writing about the existence, or in his view, non-existence of Nazareth in the first century. What I’m referring to is the most recent blog entry on his site. He calls into question the existence of Marcion as an early church figure.

[The Grand Nudger]

-as a device for asserting proto-catholic gospel. He's supposed to have written a bunch of consequential shit, and shit that scared the pants off early mob bishops - to the point that they wrote explicitly against his ideas. He's credited with arranging the earliest proto christian gospels and doing so in a way that leaves no room for the christian religion as we know it.

....and yet not a single scrap or sentence of his own has survived. We only think he existed because he was a bishops boogeyman. Like so many characters in early christian legend , whatever we know of him is on par with knowledge of the Real Character of paul bunyon The Man.

[JairCrawford]

-as a device for asserting proto-catholic gospel.  He's supposed to have written a bunch of consequential shit, and shit that scared the pants off early mob bishops - to the point that they wrote explicitly against his ideas.  He's credited with arranging the earliest proto christian gospels and doing so in a way that leaves no room for the christian religion as we know it.

....and yet not a single scrap or sentence of his own has survived.  We only think he existed because he was a bishops boogeyman.  Like so many characters in early christian legend , whatever we know of him is on par with knowledge of the Real Character of paul bunyon The Man.

It’s true that none of his writings directly survive. But I find it difficult to believe that Justin Martyr would explicitly mention him as a contemporary if he didn’t exist, unless, of course, there is reason to believe said mention in First Apology could be an interpolation.

[The Grand Nudger]

or another way of describing his concern. Marcion is only a man in that marcionites - read: all heretical christians, need a leader - if only so you can argue with a single (literary) man. Hence..... Marcion.

There are some great reasons to doubt he existed, which you can find in that blog post. Hey may actually have, though, and the good reasons to doubt it all round down to how christian operators mangled his story. Same with "jesus". Justin wrote against marcionites and marcionite christianity - not marcion the man. Justins main complaint being that the majority of christians at the time were marcionites, and thus, wrong.

[JairCrawford]

or another way of describing his concern.  Marcion is only a man in that marcionites - read: all heretical christians, need a leader - if only so you can argue with a single (literary) man.  Hence..... Marcion.

There are some great reasons to doubt he existed, which you can find in that blog post.  Hey may actually have, though, and the good reasons to doubt it all round down to how christian operators mangled his story.  Same with "jesus".  Justin wrote against marcionites and marcionite christianity - not marcion the man.

Huh. I could have sworn he mentioned the man. Looks like I’m gonna have to peruse through First Apology again. I very well could be misremembering that detail.

[The Grand Nudger]

He's named in relatively few places though the whole of justins work "against marcion" is against marcionite theology.

He never met the man, we can safely say, even if we assume there was one. End of the day, whether or not there was a real boy boils down to a ridiculous russian doll situation, where we're taking the word of a certainly fictional person that a legendary man exists and all of this happens before anyone writes a screed against his supposed theology. Tellingly, the timelines don't match up. We're hearing the story of a cultural grievance.

[Jehanne]

As always, Wikipedia has an amazing article:

Wikipedia -- Marcion of Sinope

[The Grand Nudger]

A contemporary example of what may have happened with marcion and marcionites - is that he was his own times antifa, or crt. Everyone of a particular bent suddenly starts coming down against it, even though no one is describing any actual thing in mere reality.