Does Quran prove God?

[Mystic]

Your exact value and absolute judgment and vision go hand to hand, your deeds before forming your value, have to be assed.

Your value requires perception. Your deeds have meaning through perception and form part of who you are, through an exact measurement and assessment of your intentions and your will and your states through time through out the action.

God is the only absolute possible judge that can give us exact value and measure us exactly as we are.

And who you are is constantly a vision.

[robvalue]

I have no idea what you’re talking about I’m afraid. I’m going to have to give up.

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PS: I have a very vague idea of what you’re trying to say, but it’s just completely circular. If the only values are ones god can see, then I don’t know how you can tell anyone has them in the first place. Maybe we don’t. If you can see them, then I guess you’re on a par with god.

[Mystic]

I have no idea what you’re talking about I’m afraid. I’m going to have to give up.

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PS: I have a very vague idea of what you’re trying to say, but it’s just completely circular. If the only values are ones god can see, then I don’t know how you can tell anyone has them in the first place. Maybe we don’t. If you can see them, then I guess you’re on a par with god.

We see ourselves but not in exact precision. We have blurred vision or if we have accurate vision, we still don't have absolute vision.

Here I hope this thread clarifies: https://atheistforums.org/thread-40867.html

[The Grand Nudger]

So..................?

[robvalue]

You have to decide if you’re talking about some sort of value we inherently have, or a value as interpreted/decided by god. It can’t be both at once. Or if it is, the latter is redundant.

The idea that something needs to be seen in order to exist is extremely bizarre, and I don’t know where you’re getting it from. Of course god has to exist in order to perceive some sort of value in us, and if he didn’t, then he wouldn’t. But I see no problem in us either existing anyway with our values which could potentially be decoded by god, or just not having these values at all.

Since I don’t actually know what these values are supposed to be, I can’t comment much further on them. If my values are evident just due to my existence, then I see no further contingency necessary. Observed by a decoder or not, they are there.

[Mystic]

Think about who you are, is it created with perception or is perception irrelevant to who you are?

When you do an action, is perception on your part a huge part of it? Your intention, your observation of the situation, your desire in all, your love, etc, is this not all not physical but a matter of perception?

How does then the action take physical shape to who you are as opposed to forming part of who you are through perception?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, I obviously don't need to see myself perfectly in order to exist.  I obviously don't need to see others perfectly for them to exist.  I guess that's convenient, since you just told us that we had no such abilities.

Looks like perception is irrelevant in that regard...if what you say is true.

[robvalue]

Think about who you are, is it created with perception or is perception irrelevant to who you are?

When you do an action, is perception on your part a huge part of it? Your intention, your observation of the situation, your desire in all, your love, etc, is this not all not physical but a matter of perception?

How does then the action take physical shape to who you are as opposed to forming part of who you are through perception?

You’re talking about human perception now. If I killed every other human and animal, then no one would be perceiving me. I have no reason to think I’d suddenly cease to be in this instance. Of course, no one else would be perceiving my actions, but I would still be doing them. The potential for them to be perceived would be there.

If you’re saying I actually exist within other people's perceptions of me, then that’s true in a sense, because we all really live in a VR simulation of an assumed objective reality. But I see no reason to think that all these other VR shutting down would shut down either my VR, or a hypothetical objective existence.

Again, it’s circular to say that if I’m not being perceived, I’m not being perceived. Of course I’m not. But I do things all the time with no one perceiving me, and it doesn’t seem to be a problem. God's perception of me, if it exists, is another matter entirely. That perception only exists... if it exists, but it again is not the same as a hypothetical objective reality. If it is, then I am literally a figment of gods own mind.

[Gwaithmir]

Your identity is interlinked with perception and requires it (whether brain generates or something else).
You have an exact valued identity.
Nothing can see you exactly as you are but God.
Therefore God exists.

There was Erú, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad. But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but a few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony. (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë 1:1)

Nothing can see you exactly as you are but the One. Therefore, Erú Ilúvatar exists.

[Mystic]

See my past thread on Ultimate value and signs in ourselves. I will move on and show verses reiterating this argument from different angles.