IF you deconverted in midlife, can you help?

[Abaddon_ire]

I’m not in the school of we control our beliefs

Great, your claim is that you have no control over yourself. Guess again.

If you believe in hell why torture yourself trying to pretend you don’t?

Because decades of religious manipulation have in Pavlovian fashion enbedded such wonky thinking in peoples brains. That is what they do. That is their intention.

Maybe part of your brain can believe and another part doesn’t...

It's called compartmentalisation and it is a real thing. It's easy for me or you to toss that aside, but for someone coming out of that nonsense? Not so much.

It seems that your goal is to actively drive folks back into faith. Why?

All I know is I’m not afraid of things I don’t believe in. That certainly includes hell.

I don't believe you. So far, all you do is try to scare people from leaving that superstitious rubbish. Why?

But on the other hand I don’t think atheism is some kind of panacea. Why try to force yourself into being something you’re not?

Strawman. Nobody claimed atheism as a panacea but you. Making crap up out of whole cloth is the trademark of the theist. Like you.

Furthermore, those emerging from theism are always unsure who they are or what they believe. You are actively attempting to drive those people back to your imaginary god. Why?

[CarveTheFive]

I’m 50.

I think the OP is better off accepting some sort of intellectual compromise instead of going through a bunch of existential angst at this point. WTF if you’re uncomfortable with atheism fuck it. It’s not like my disbelief does me any fucking good.

In Denial of Death Becker breaks down Kierkegaard to something like believing stupid shit is simply better and easier for most people.

Maybe the OP could just be like well this shit doesn’t make sense but whatever god is beyond our understanding. I trust in a loving god and I’m going to heaven. Easy peezy. Billions do it, in fact. Give the ol noodle a break

---

Ab- if you think I’m a closet theist I’m not

[Abaddon_ire]

I’m 50.

Yay, me too. So what. You are acting like a child. That may seem to you to be an insult, but it isn't. What keeps me feeling young is indulging my inner child. The difference between us is that I do not feel any need to bully the shit out of other people.

I think the OP is better off accepting some sort of intellectual compromise instead of going through a bunch of existential angst at this point.

Your journey is not his journey. Why you insist upon that being so is anyone's guess. My guess is that you have issues.

WTF if you’re uncomfortable with atheism fuck it. It’s not like my disbelief does me any fucking good.

Jealous much? I'm an atheist some 40 years, but I am not a dick about it. You seem to be determined to be a dick about it.
why?

In Denial of Death Becker breaks down Kierkegaard to something like believing stupid shit is simply better and easier for most people.

Fukkem. Why should I care about those blokes? They can all go die in an existential fire for all I care. Why do you care about them?

Maybe the OP could just be like well this shit doesn’t make sense but whatever god is beyond our understanding. I trust in a loving god and I’m going to heaven. Easy peezy. Billions do it, in fact. Give the ol noodle a break

Why are you then trying your hardest to discourage anyone from leaving the "faith"?

Ab- if you think I’m a closet theist I’m not

The evidence is otherwise and you now have an evidential mountain to climb. Fact is, I think you are a god-bothering wolf in sheep's clothing. Pretending to be a militant atheist in order to herd your flock back into the fold of superstitious nonsense.

Am I wrong? Demonstrate that I am.

[Alan V]

Wow.  Smart kid.

[vulcanlogician]

Wow.  Smart kid.

Yup. Very much so. He's only eighteen or nineteen and just got accepted into Oxford University too. Seems like he has a promising future.

He's one of the more intellectually astute YouTube skeptics I've come across. Certainly worth a look.

[Chad32]

About the fear of hell. I guess I was lucky enough to grow up in a more laid back church. My preacher was concerned more about the positive side, and doing good things because Jesus is love, instead of saying "Follow these rules, or you'l burn in hell!". It probably also helped that when it comes to hell, christians shouldn't fear it. Jesus said if you break the least of these laws, you'll be considered least in heaven. Meaning you're still going to be in heaven. Hell, to me, was a place that bad people went. there was supposed to be a lake of fire, but that's for the really wicked people. Good kids like me that obeyed their parents, ate their vegetables, and went to church functions multiple times a week, didn't have to worry about hell.

I'm not sure how you can cure yourself of the brainwashing, except to figure that if hell is real, and there's free will in heaven, then everyone's going t get kicked into hell eventually. There's no way you could stay in heaven, without being lobotomized, given how petty and vindictive Yahweh is. It just doesn't work. It's not realistic enough to even believe in.

Existential stuff. The way I figure, the only person who can give my life meaning is me. Not my parents, or a god, or anyone else. I have to be the one to decide "What makes this life worth living", and find a way to enjoy myself. Everyone grapples with this. Inserting a magic man in the sky just gives people a false sense of security.

Fear of dying is another thing everyone deals with. Sometimes by telling themselves that there's a pleasant afterlife waiting for them. Whatever your reason is, go out there and find it.

[Little Rik]

I got good news for you Dragonfly.
There is no hell.
There can not possibly be any hell.
Why?
Because if there would be an hell there wouldn t be God.
But let me explain to you this point.
Being God perfect an imperfection would mean that He is not perfect.
Hell is a place where imperfections are to be dumped.
The so called sinners therefore would be dumped in this rubbish bin.
Rubbish creation is not part of God otherwise he wouldn t be perfect so hell is out of the question.
To sort out imbalances that pop up here and there God established the Karma law but this is something that you will learn later on.

Religions have done terrible things especially by inventing the hell and at the proper time they too will learn and punished by the karma law.
So try to be happy and put hell stories in the rubbish bin where they belong.
Atheists on the other hand have very little to teach you.
Spirituality is lot lot better.
Have a lovely day away from the fear of hell and religions.

[Angrboda]

You've lost things. Grieving is a natural reaction to that. You're in an odd position in that, presumably, if you could change ever so slightly, you might regain what you've lost, and no longer have to grieve. The question is would you do that, even if you could. Your grief may resolve itself slowly or quickly. When we're grieving we always want it to go away sooner rather than later.

I may have feared death at one time, if I did, I don't remember it. I came to religion after childhood, and my religious influences were Taoism and Hinduism, so I lost different things in coming to an end of my faith. But I remember when I was 16 coming to the realization that I would never accomplish anything great (I was recognized for my mathematical ability, so it would have been math). I recognized the reality of my position, and that I was powerless to really change that fact. It saddened me at the time, but there really was no option other than to get over it. Some things you just cannot change.

I would disagree with the idea that fearing hell is naturally irrational. When I venture into the woods, I naturally fear the possibility that I might run into a bear and get attacked. There may not be any bears in the woods where I am, but I'm still going to be cautious, just because of the possibility that a bear might be nearby. The mere possibility provokes feelings in us that denying the possibility really can't eliminate. We're reminded of this when we're faced with Pascal's Wager and the idea of hell, there is no way to completely extinguish that worry about "what if we're wrong?" A while back, there was a challenge to explicitly deny the holy spirit, as that supposedly is the one unforgivable sin. I found myself being very hesitant with regard to the idea. I was raised with the idea of God and no matter how rational I became, the possibility of God will always be a live one for me, emotionally. I don't really fear hell, but the latter, yeah that would make me uncomfortable.

It reminds me of people who say that they wouldn't worship God even if he were shown to exist. That they would stand on principle and suffer eternal damnation instead of giving in to the bully. Me, I'm not made of such stern stuff. Threaten me with eternal suffering, and I'll readily agree to a lot of things. If I have a way of avoiding mere torture, say at the hands of the BTK killer, I'll take it. Being afraid of something, if the concept of hell is still as vivid to you as God is to me, it seems eminently reasonable to be afraid. I can't tell you whether you will or won't come to terms with that over time, but I see nothing irrational about having that fear even though you don't believe. I'll still tread lightly in the woods, no matter how many assurances I receive about how safe it is.

[CarveTheFive]

I’m 50.

Yay, me too. So what. You are acting like a child. That may seem to you to be an insult, but it isn't. What keeps me feeling young is indulging my inner child. The difference between us is that I do not feel any need to bully the shit out of other people.

I think the OP is better off accepting some sort of intellectual compromise instead of going through a bunch of existential angst at this point.

Your journey is not his journey. Why you insist upon that being so is anyone's guess. My guess is that you have issues.

WTF if you’re uncomfortable with atheism fuck it. It’s not like my disbelief does me any fucking good.

Jealous much? I'm an atheist some 40 years, but I am not a dick about it. You seem to be determined to be a dick about it.
why?

In Denial of Death Becker breaks down Kierkegaard to something like believing stupid shit is simply better and easier for most people.

Fukkem. Why should I care about those blokes? They can all go die in an existential fire for all I care. Why do you care about them?

Maybe the OP could just be like well this shit doesn’t make sense but whatever god is beyond our understanding. I trust in a loving god and I’m going to heaven. Easy peezy. Billions do it, in fact. Give the ol noodle a break

Why are you then trying your hardest to discourage anyone from leaving the "faith"?

Ab- if you think I’m a closet theist I’m not

The evidence is otherwise and you now have an evidential mountain to climb. Fact is, I think you are a god-bothering wolf in sheep's clothing. Pretending to be a militant atheist in order to herd your flock back into the fold of superstitious nonsense.

Am I wrong? Demonstrate that I am.

You’re fucking weird-o dude

[Dragonfly]

I'm one of the life-long atheists but I do fear death. I guess I'm atypical of atheists in that I'm not okay with the fact that I don't have the power to live as long as I want to. I have nothing but derision at attempts to sugar-coat this.

As far as dealing with it, I guess it's the same as dealing with anything negative that's out of our control. There is no sense complaining that rain is wet or that it gets so damn hot here in Phoenix. There's just no point in focusing on negatives we currently have no ability to do anything about.

I appreciate your honesty. Yeah, for me the end is like an hourglass that I can't help viewing as half-empty. It's like a shadow that's always on my mind. I try not to focus on it, but I have a lot of trouble with that. 

Fear of Hell

Existential angst/crisis

Fear of dying -

I became an atheist when I was 50, almost 51, but that last step wasn't difficult for me.  By then, I was ready for it.  

My struggle came six years earlier, after I gave up studying Sufi mysticism, which had engaged my attention for most of 25 years.  For several years afterwards I was semi-depressed and had occasional panic attacks.  I worried I would go to hell.  I was also very unhappy about the time and efforts I had wasted, and how I had made myself a worse person rather than a better person.  During most of that time, I diverted my attention with work and reading.  At one point I read Lord of the Rings twice through; when I finished I started over again.  I just figured my habitual mind needed time to wear out old habits of thought.  I stuck by what I considered true no matter what my fears said.  Ultimately my fears wore away, and once I discovered atheist literature I was able to put all my old demons to bed for good.

However, I don't think we ever get over the fear of dying.  When the time comes, if the suffering becomes too much I will find some easy out.  I don't want to become a financial, emotional, or physical burden to my wife or others.

I'm 50 as well. I didn't know Sufi mysticism had a Hell. Sad that your process took several years. I wish I had work as a distraction, but I am off work due to health problems. I need to find some kind of thing that will be a passion and a distraction from all of this, but I'm still searching for it. The quoted part I colored blue really grabbed me. You're right--they're habits! They're patterns of thought like grooves on an old record. "I stuck by what I considered true no matter what my fears said." I really want to be able to say this. I added this quote to the desktop of my computer where I'll see it frequently. Thank you.