IF you deconverted in midlife, can you help?

[purplepurpose]

Imagine, kid dies. Where he ends between hell and heaven in xianity? Heaven of course. Then, imagine a teen who have sinned for a decade and died.

Now that teen spend 10 years sinning and where he will end up? If it is hell, then his 10 years of survival gave him an endless torture, but that kid died and ended up in heaven, endless heaven... Kid didn't do anything to earn endless heaven and teen in my imaginary example didn't do anything to earn endless hell.

There is no justice, love from God's side in this example, only savage retardation. This stuff was written by some savage. God might exist, but I highly doubt that He is a Savage Retard.

[OakTree500]

[Edit]

Fear of Hell - Despite rationally determining that the God of the Bible cannot be true and things like Hell can't exist, I am STILL afraid. I know it makes no logical sense--how can you fear what you don't believe in? But those fears are still in there. Did you or do you have this? How long did it take to lose it? Is there anything that helped you? I feel like I'm trying everything (reading, watching videos, talking with other atheists, etc.) and that nothing is working well enough. 

From Rational Wiki:

"The hell meme developed from Gehenna, which was the name of the Jerusalem city dump. Gehenna was constantly smoldering with spot fires which never went out and Jesus taught several parables about the worthy going to see Abraham after they died while the unworthy were thrown into Gehenna."

Plus from my understanding, Hell is only ever mentioned few times, and then it depends on the version of the bible you have, as some don't actually mention the word "Hell" at all, but do directly mention Gehenna above.

Some reference a furnace and "a lake of fire", but how big is Hell? Like if it's infinitely sized or the size of a small country, 1 lake and a singular furnace isn't something to be overly afraid of. PLUS then you get onto the contradiction of if Satan is bad or not...because is he punishing the wicked? If yes, then he's doing it for God then isn't he? Or would he just be having parties down in hell as a big FU to the G man himself? I mean it doenst make sense.

Oh and this:

[Angrboda]

[purplepurpose]

Those kind of videos cheer me up.

[SteveII]

I'm sure you are wrestling with all this and I hope you find a way through it. However, I do want to point out that Young Earth Creationism (YEC) is a rather recent trend. Most Christian thinkers do not take the first chapters of Genesis literally. If that is what brought down your "house of cards", you are not well versed in broader Christian doctrine. Just saying.

I've been thoroughly saturated in Christian doctrine, with Christian schools all the way through college. I disagree that YEC is a recent trend. A literal interpretation of the Bible has occurred since the Bible was written. My losing a literal interpretation of the Bible was merely the final straw. I can't believe Biblegod exists after reading the Bible. Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation. You then have to pick and choose what God says and means, and that's all open to interpretation. Have you studied how the Bible was canonized? It was written over hundreds of years, and then religious leaders basically voted about what books to include in the Bible. If God wanted to give his Word that would be a Book to be followed, don't you think he could have done so in a way that is more reliable and authentic? 

You have been thoroughly saturated in fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Even that, I doubt. I know your story, I had a similar one. I was even a pastor's kid. While I did know the basic doctrines, I did not know the underlying systematic theology. Without that foundation, you get all kinds of inconsistencies because of careless thinking and careless teaching by well-intentioned people.   Where our paths diverge is that I went and found answers. You didn't. Don't think for a second that every one of your questions and problems have not been discussed in a 1000 books. There ARE NO NEW QUESTIONS about Christianity in hundreds of years. 

When you say "Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation", you must mean Gen 1-3 (you said it was because of evolution). Which is what, 1/400 of the Bible. Written by who knows, and when. At most, you have a weak argument against the inerrantcy of Genesis. You do not need one word of Genesis to believe every word of the NT and certainly don't need the OT (or the NT for that matter) to be inerrant to be a Christian.  Your argument is based in ignorance and an inch-deep understanding of doctrine. Go ahead, tell me where I am wrong. 

Yes, I have studied how the NT became canonized. Your characterization of it show me that you probably do not. You might want to get your facts straight if you want to come back to this topic.

[Abaddon_ire]

An OOBE as an atheist! I bet that would be fascinating to hear about. One of my best friends has written a book about near-death experiences. I'm not a believer, either. The brain is very powerful. 

Probably off topic. Take it to PM if you like.

[Dragonfly]

I've been thoroughly saturated in Christian doctrine, with Christian schools all the way through college. I disagree that YEC is a recent trend. A literal interpretation of the Bible has occurred since the Bible was written. My losing a literal interpretation of the Bible was merely the final straw. I can't believe Biblegod exists after reading the Bible. Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation. You then have to pick and choose what God says and means, and that's all open to interpretation. Have you studied how the Bible was canonized? It was written over hundreds of years, and then religious leaders basically voted about what books to include in the Bible. If God wanted to give his Word that would be a Book to be followed, don't you think he could have done so in a way that is more reliable and authentic? 

You have been thoroughly saturated in fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Even that, I doubt. I know your story, I had a similar one. I was even a pastor's kid. While I did know the basic doctrines, I did not know the underlying systematic theology. Without that foundation, you get all kinds of inconsistencies because of careless thinking and careless teaching by well-intentioned people.   Where our paths diverge is that I went and found answers. You didn't. Don't think for a second that every one of your questions and problems have not been discussed in a 1000 books. There ARE NO NEW QUESTIONS about Christianity in hundreds of years. 

When you say "Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation", you must mean Gen 1-3 (you said it was because of evolution). Which is what, 1/400 of the Bible. Written by who knows, and when. At most, you have a weak argument against the inerrantcy of Genesis. You do not need one word of Genesis to believe every word of the NT and certainly don't need the OT (or the NT for that matter) to be inerrant to be a Christian.  Your argument is based in ignorance and an inch-deep understanding of doctrine. Go ahead, tell me where I am wrong. 

Yes, I have studied how the NT became canonized. Your characterization of it show me that you probably do not. You might want to get your facts straight if you want to come back to this topic.

I don't have time for this shit. Did you not notice the title of the thread? You haven't deconverted, and you're certainly not helping. My facts are straight. You have so many errors and misassumptions in your post above that I'm not even going to try to address them. Again, I don't have time for your nonsense. I've been steeped in theology and doctrine my entire life, so who are you to tell me what I do and do not know and what I have and haven't done? Your arrogance is amazing. Just go away. 

---

I'm sure you are wrestling with all this and I hope you find a way through it. However, I do want to point out that Young Earth Creationism (YEC) is a rather recent trend. Most Christian thinkers do not take the first chapters of Genesis literally. If that is what brought down your "house of cards", you are not well versed in broader Christian doctrine. Just saying.

I agree that criticism of Christianity based on the worst interpretation of just a few passages of the bible is not a good basis for deciding much of anything.  On the other hand, just how other passages are selected to be interpreted literally and as providing clear direction for all Christendom is quite mysterious to me.

Why are you assuming that I am criticizing Christianity "based on the worst interpretation of just a few passages?" I've read the entire Bible numerous times, and there are more than a "few" passages that have issues that make the Bible an unreliable source.

---

[Edit]

Fear of Hell - Despite rationally determining that the God of the Bible cannot be true and things like Hell can't exist, I am STILL afraid. I know it makes no logical sense--how can you fear what you don't believe in? But those fears are still in there. Did you or do you have this? How long did it take to lose it? Is there anything that helped you? I feel like I'm trying everything (reading, watching videos, talking with other atheists, etc.) and that nothing is working well enough. 

From Rational Wiki:

"The hell meme developed from Gehenna, which was the name of the Jerusalem city dump. Gehenna was constantly smoldering with spot fires which never went out and Jesus taught several parables about the worthy going to see Abraham after they died while the unworthy were thrown into Gehenna."

Plus from my understanding, Hell is only ever mentioned few times, and then it depends on the version of the bible you have, as some don't actually mention the word "Hell" at all, but do directly mention Gehenna above.

Some reference a furnace and "a lake of fire", but how big is Hell? Like if it's infinitely sized or the size of a small country, 1 lake and a singular furnace isn't something to be overly afraid of. PLUS then you get onto the contradiction of if Satan is bad or not...because is he punishing the wicked? If yes, then he's doing it for God then isn't he? Or would he just be having parties down in hell as a big FU to the G man himself? I mean it doenst make sense.

Oh and this:

Yes, the Jewish version is simply a pit where the dead were thrown. It wasn't until a later time, and not mentioned in the Tanakh, that a concept of something like Hell was developed. In Judaism, it is a place of purification, and it doesn't last more than a year. I can handle that Hell. 

Unfortunately, the Hell that keeps coming up in my fears is the Christian one. When I lost most meaning in Judaism, my mind reverted to old religious trauma of teachings of hellfire and brimstone. A lake of fire and one singular furnace doesn't ease my mind at all. If you were about to be thrown in a lake of fire, would you care that it was just a lake and not an ocean? And the whole eternity thing is just horrific to imagine.

[brewer]

I've been thoroughly saturated in Christian doctrine, with Christian schools all the way through college. I disagree that YEC is a recent trend. A literal interpretation of the Bible has occurred since the Bible was written. My losing a literal interpretation of the Bible was merely the final straw. I can't believe Biblegod exists after reading the Bible. Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation. You then have to pick and choose what God says and means, and that's all open to interpretation. Have you studied how the Bible was canonized? It was written over hundreds of years, and then religious leaders basically voted about what books to include in the Bible. If God wanted to give his Word that would be a Book to be followed, don't you think he could have done so in a way that is more reliable and authentic? 

You have been thoroughly saturated in fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Even that, I doubt. I know your story, I had a similar one. I was even a pastor's kid. While I did know the basic doctrines, I did not know the underlying systematic theology. Without that foundation, you get all kinds of inconsistencies because of careless thinking and careless teaching by well-intentioned people.   Where our paths diverge is that I went and found answers. You didn't. Don't think for a second that every one of your questions and problems have not been discussed in a 1000 books. There ARE NO NEW QUESTIONS about Christianity in hundreds of years. 

When you say "Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation", you must mean Gen 1-3 (you said it was because of evolution). Which is what, 1/400 of the Bible. Written by who knows, and when. At most, you have a weak argument against the inerrantcy of Genesis. You do not need one word of Genesis to believe every word of the NT and certainly don't need the OT (or the NT for that matter) to be inerrant to be a Christian.  Your argument is based in ignorance and an inch-deep understanding of doctrine. Go ahead, tell me where I am wrong. 

Yes, I have studied how the NT became canonized. Your characterization of it show me that you probably do not. You might want to get your facts straight if you want to come back to this topic.

You're wrong. Where? Fantasy delusion is fantasy delusion no matter how many rationalizations and justifications you use in "understanding doctrine".

[Whateverist]

You have been thoroughly saturated in fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Even that, I doubt. I know your story, I had a similar one. I was even a pastor's kid. While I did know the basic doctrines, I did not know the underlying systematic theology. Without that foundation, you get all kinds of inconsistencies because of careless thinking and careless teaching by well-intentioned people.   Where our paths diverge is that I went and found answers. You didn't. Don't think for a second that every one of your questions and problems have not been discussed in a 1000 books. There ARE NO NEW QUESTIONS about Christianity in hundreds of years. 

When you say "Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation", you must mean Gen 1-3 (you said it was because of evolution). Which is what, 1/400 of the Bible. Written by who knows, and when. At most, you have a weak argument against the inerrantcy of Genesis. You do not need one word of Genesis to believe every word of the NT and certainly don't need the OT (or the NT for that matter) to be inerrant to be a Christian.  Your argument is based in ignorance and an inch-deep understanding of doctrine. Go ahead, tell me where I am wrong. 

Yes, I have studied how the NT became canonized. Your characterization of it show me that you probably do not. You might want to get your facts straight if you want to come back to this topic.

I don't have time for this shit. Did you not notice the title of the thread? You haven't deconverted, and you're certainly not helping. My facts are straight. You have so many errors and misassumptions in your post above that I'm not even going to try to address them. Again, I don't have time for your nonsense. I've been steeped in theology and doctrine my entire life, so who are you to tell me what I do and do not know and what I have and haven't done? Your arrogance is amazing. Just go away. 

---

I agree that criticism of Christianity based on the worst interpretation of just a few passages of the bible is not a good basis for deciding much of anything.  On the other hand, just how other passages are selected to be interpreted literally and as providing clear direction for all Christendom is quite mysterious to me.

Why are you assuming that I am criticizing Christianity "based on the worst interpretation of just a few passages?" I've read the entire Bible numerous times, and there are more than a "few" passages that have issues that make the Bible an unreliable source.

I'm not assuming anything about your position. I was addressing Steve.

[Dragonfly]

I don't have time for this shit. Did you not notice the title of the thread? You haven't deconverted, and you're certainly not helping. My facts are straight. You have so many errors and misassumptions in your post above that I'm not even going to try to address them. Again, I don't have time for your nonsense. I've been steeped in theology and doctrine my entire life, so who are you to tell me what I do and do not know and what I have and haven't done? Your arrogance is amazing. Just go away. 

---

Why are you assuming that I am criticizing Christianity "based on the worst interpretation of just a few passages?" I've read the entire Bible numerous times, and there are more than a "few" passages that have issues that make the Bible an unreliable source.

I'm not assuming anything about your position.  I was addressing Steve.

Oh, I'm sorry. Sometimes I get confused with the threading of the posts!