IF you deconverted in midlife, can you help?

[Foxaèr]

Some theists love their you weren't a real christian shtick.

[OakTree500]

Yes, the Jewish version is simply a pit where the dead were thrown. It wasn't until a later time, and not mentioned in the Tanakh, that a concept of something like Hell was developed. In Judaism, it is a place of purification, and it doesn't last more than a year. I can handle that Hell. 

Unfortunately, the Hell that keeps coming up in my fears is the Christian one. When I lost most meaning in Judaism, my mind reverted to old religious trauma of teachings of hellfire and brimstone. A lake of fire and one singular furnace doesn't ease my mind at all. If you were about to be thrown in a lake of fire, would you care that it was just a lake and not an ocean? And the whole eternity thing is just horrific to imagine.

Education here seems to be the best things. From my understanding, in the Christian faith, despite HELL being a big staple of the whole "afterlife" crap they teach you.....it's not actually mentioned in the bible at all, well in some translations of the bible. The supposed most accurate translation of the bible mentions it 14 times, which are all in the new testament. When you compare that against how many times it mentions other things (like heaven for example; mentioned 644 times) you'd think there would be a bigger focus on such a supposed large part of your proposed afterlife, should you be bad enough to warrant that.

More info below on translation issues:

There Are 4 Distinct Words Translated As “Hell”
Most of the confusion around Hell starts with translation error. There are four separate Hebrew and Greek words which are translated into the single English word “Hell”, despite having drastically different meanings.

1. Sheol (Hebrew)
   
   
2. Hades (Greek)
   
   
3. Tartarus (Greek)
   
   
4. Gehenna (Greek)
   
   
   

The English language is often very limited when trying to express certain concepts. A perfect Biblical example of this is the multiple Greek words translated to the single English word “Love”. Agape is a special version of love that speaks about God’s love toward humanity. Phileo speaks about brotherly love and Eros refers to sexual love or desire.

And just like “love”, the English word “hell” is unilaterally translated from the Greek and Hebrew words Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus, each of which have different meanings.

1. Sheol (H7585)
שׁאל    שׁאול
she’ôl  she’ôl
sheh-ole’, sheh-ole’
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: – grave, hell, pit.

2. Hades (G86)
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah’-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: – grave, hell.

3. Gehenna (G1067)
γέεννα
geenna
gheh’-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem

4. Tartarus (G5020)
ταρταρόω
tartaroō
tar-tar-o’-o
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: – cast down to hell.

Below, I’ve listed the full 13 times “Hell” is used in the NASB translation of the Bible. Sheol and Hades are always correctly translated as “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations, which is why you don’t see any references below. I’ve included those words in our discussion simply because they will come up incorrectly as “Hell” in the KJV.

You’ll notice that NONE of the above 4 words actually translate to Hell. The closest is Hades, which is derived from Greek mythology and is never actually translated to “Hell” in academically accepted translations. Sheol and Hades are both always translated as “death” or “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations. And as we are about to see, neither Tartarus nor Gehenna can be correctly translated as “Hell” either.

In other words, “Hell” is NOT actually in the Bible.
But a claim like this warrants a worthy defense, and that’s why we are going to look at EVERY single time the word “Hell” is used in the Bible.
Using the NASB, we see 13 references:

• Matthew 5:22 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 5:29 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 5:30 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 10:28 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 18:9 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 23:15 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 23:33 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:43 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:45 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:47 – Gehenna
  
  
• Luke 12:5 – Gehenna
  
  
• James 3:6 – Gehenna
  
  
• 2 Peter 2:4 – Tartarus
  
  
  

You will notice then that the full conversation of “Hell” comes down to 12 Gehenna mentions and 1 mention of Tartarus.

Tartarus is not a normal Greek word. Like Hades, it’s the name of a place/person in Greek mythology, appearing in writing 700 years before Christ as part of the Greek poet Hesiod’s Theogony. It denotes a dark place below even Hades, and accordingly, is the only one of our 4 words to have “eternal” torment inherently linked to it.

Even if you want to use Greek mythology to defend your views of God, 2 Peter 2:4 isn’t talking about people. It’s talking about where God sent fallen angels.
So if you’re keeping track, this leaves us with only ONE single word on which to base our Biblical analysis of the word “Hell”.

Gehenna.

[Info above from: http://www.brazenchurch.com/hell-in-the-bible/]

So the short answer is, depsite "Hell" being a large focus of what you've been told all these years, most of it is totally made up, whilst the other parts do infact directly relate to the physical place of Gehenna. 

I know that might not be enough for you, and in time you will come around to the idea of hell just being a ludicrous as all the rest of religion to be honest. My rational would be, "do you go to hell for being a good person, but just for not believing in god?" if that answer to that is yes, then fuck god and I'll go to hell with a smile on my face.

[SteveII]

You have been thoroughly saturated in fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Even that, I doubt. I know your story, I had a similar one. I was even a pastor's kid. While I did know the basic doctrines, I did not know the underlying systematic theology. Without that foundation, you get all kinds of inconsistencies because of careless thinking and careless teaching by well-intentioned people.   Where our paths diverge is that I went and found answers. You didn't. Don't think for a second that every one of your questions and problems have not been discussed in a 1000 books. There ARE NO NEW QUESTIONS about Christianity in hundreds of years. 

When you say "Everything falls apart if you lose the literal translation", you must mean Gen 1-3 (you said it was because of evolution). Which is what, 1/400 of the Bible. Written by who knows, and when. At most, you have a weak argument against the inerrantcy of Genesis. You do not need one word of Genesis to believe every word of the NT and certainly don't need the OT (or the NT for that matter) to be inerrant to be a Christian.  Your argument is based in ignorance and an inch-deep understanding of doctrine. Go ahead, tell me where I am wrong. 

Yes, I have studied how the NT became canonized. Your characterization of it show me that you probably do not. You might want to get your facts straight if you want to come back to this topic.

I don't have time for this shit. Did you not notice the title of the thread? You haven't deconverted, and you're certainly not helping. My facts are straight. You have so many errors and misassumptions in your post above that I'm not even going to try to address them. Again, I don't have time for your nonsense. I've been steeped in theology and doctrine my entire life, so who are you to tell me what I do and do not know and what I have and haven't done? Your arrogance is amazing. Just go away. 

I did notice the title of this thread. And I read your OP. Perhaps the reason you need help is that your reasons for being in the position you are in--are flawed. I understand why you wouldn't want to examine those reasons more carefully--you know, with so much on the line if you are wrong. 
Oh well, I'll just "go away".

[brewer]

I don't have time for this shit. Did you not notice the title of the thread? You haven't deconverted, and you're certainly not helping. My facts are straight. You have so many errors and misassumptions in your post above that I'm not even going to try to address them. Again, I don't have time for your nonsense. I've been steeped in theology and doctrine my entire life, so who are you to tell me what I do and do not know and what I have and haven't done? Your arrogance is amazing. Just go away. 

I did notice the title of this thread. And I read your OP. Perhaps the reason you need help is that your reasons for being in the position you are in--are flawed. I understand why you wouldn't want to examine those reasons more carefully--you know, with so much on the line if you are wrong. 
Oh well, I'll just "go away".

Typical christen. Should have never come in, comes in anyway because of feelings of false entitlement and self righteousness, accuses the others of being wrong/ignorant, makes threat of hell on the way out.

[Macoleco]

In my case I turned Atheist just a monthss before turning 19 (or 20, no sure). It was somewhat difficult indeed. It was a decision that took me a few days to make.

Regarding your questions:

1. I never feared hell. No even when I was a believer. Probably because I thought I was going to heaven. Curiously, I was afraid of this idea of immortality. The idea of living forever in heaven was scary, not comforting. In your case, you were probably deeply indoctrinated so the fear is part of you. I would recommend you to simply ignore those ideas and move on with your life. Or just meditate. And as you made hell part of yourself, erase it from yourself.

2. After becoming an atheist, I went through a phase of filling "holes" and acceptance of the inevitable. For example: the fact that I would never see my parents after they die. It is necessary to fill those "holes" that religion used to fill for you with fake hopes. This is something you have to do yourself. You can seek for advice, etc., but at the end, it is you who has to overcome your existential crises.

3. I fear death a little and the process of dying. I hope my death is fast. If I ever have to face a painful reality I hope to have the strenght to commit suicide. Now, telling you to commit suicide in case of terrible odds may be not be best option (but it is there). Death makes me sad mostly. Because I would like to see the future before doing. Based on the scientific progress it feels like our generation will be one of the lasts ones to die, which also saddens me, deeply. But you just need to accept it. Have you ever seen a cropse crying? Because I havent. Dying is just like falling sleep. Once it happens, you wont notice it. See it that way.

[Dragonfly]

In my case I turned Atheist just a monthss before turning 19 (or 20, no sure). It was somewhat difficult indeed. It was a decision that took me a few days to make.

Regarding your questions:

1. I never feared hell. No even when I was a believer. Probably because I thought I was going to heaven. Curiously, I was afraid of this idea of immortality. The idea of living forever in heaven was scary, not comforting. In your case, you were probably deeply indoctrinated so the fear is part of you. I would recommend you to simply ignore those ideas and move on with your life. Or just meditate. And as you made hell part of yourself, erase it from yourself.

2. After becoming an atheist, I went through a phase of filling "holes" and acceptance of the inevitable. For example: the fact that I would never see my parents after they die. It is necessary to fill those "holes" that religion used to fill for you with fake hopes. This is something you have to do yourself. You can seek for advice, etc., but at the end, it is you who has to overcome your existential crises.

3. I fear death a little and the process of dying. I hope my death is fast. If I ever have to face a painful reality I hope to have the strenght to commit suicide. Now, telling you to commit suicide in case of terrible odds may be not be best option (but it is there). Death makes me sad mostly. Because I would like to see the future before doing. Based on the scientific progress  it feels like our generation will be one of the lasts ones to die, which also saddens me, deeply. But you just need to accept it. Have you ever seen a cropse crying? Because I havent. Dying is just like falling sleep. Once it happens, you wont notice it. See it that way.

1. So far I haven't been able to deliberately erase the fears of hell and move on with my life, so I'm trying to find answers or something that will help me. When you say meditate and erase hell from myself, how do I do this? 

2. What kinds of things do you fill the holes with? I am very depressed about losing my elderly parents soon and just the reality that there is no God. I wake up every day and feel this overwhelming sense of loss. I don't want to get out of bed. I am seeing a psychologist who was raised in a cult, and I'm trying to get help with the sense of grief. 

3. Yes, suicide is an option. I've thought about doing that someday if I get some very painful terminal illness. Death makes me very sad. I'm 50. The future looks very bleak. I will get aches and pains, lose strength, maybe lose thinking skills (I've been diagnosed with a neurocognitive disorder), and lose independence and dignity. What do I have to look forward to? I have no children. I've seen only one person die, and for the most part he died peacefully. I'm not sure he even knew he was dying. He just sort of wound down to where he basically went unconscious, and then his heart rate and breathing slowed until they ceased. However, as a nursing student I had a patient who was fully cognizant during my shift and suddenly took a turn for the worse. She was dying although she was conscious. She clung to my hand and said, "Don't leave me. I don't want to die alone." For her, it wasn't like falling asleep, I don't think. I fear that my death will be like that, and I will be filled with fear. 

One of the big questions and fears that I have is how to cope with aging as someone who doesn't believe in God. As you're losing your strength and independence, what do you have to look forward to? How do you deal with the impending extinction that will occur soon? If I were religious, I'd cling to religion and find some hope in that. As someone who doesn't believe in God, I don't know how to have the strength to face those realities in life. I don't hear of old atheists talking about dying soon, and I wish they would. If you have a video recommendation (or book, but I'd think that'd be less helpful), please do share.

[Belacqua]

So far I haven't been able to deliberately erase the fears of hell and move on with my life

I very much agree with VulcanLogic and others who recognize that a person may remain frightened of hell even if they no longer believe in it. People are complicated, and you don't have to be all Freudian to see that we can contradict ourselves. There's a lot going on subconsciously. For some people, hell will remain a strong image, or emotional complex, or archetype, (or whatever name is good) even if they never did believe in it. 

Probably you are doing the best things already. Counseling and group work may help a lot, though it takes time. 

Let me suggest something else, and if it seems ridiculous to you I won't be offended. 

Since you recognize that hell doesn't exist, but it remains a frightening image for you anyway, why not look at fictional but non-frightening images? For example, a number of people in the Platonic tradition (Plotinus, William Blake, etc. etc.) say that we are currently in hell. This is the low point, as far down as things get. (There is a non-mainstream but old tradition in Christianity which looks at things this way.) It may be that in your current mood this image makes sense to you. The cool thing is that these people described how to rise back up out of our current hell. This is done through overcoming division. Division is overcome by loving more things. 

I am also one of those people who didn't have to deconvert from Christianity. I did spend a lot of my life in melancholy, though, and I have found that these images help me. I imagine the process a lot. Knock wood, I feel a whole lot better than I did at 50. 

There is also an image in Dante that I like a lot. For him, God is the Good. The Good shines into the world. Bonum Est Diffusivum Sui -- it is the nature of goodness to spread itself; if it didn't spread itself, it wouldn't be good. The Good is not something that diminishes through division, the way pizza does. (More pieces doesn't mean less for each person.) It works the opposite way -- each of us is a mirror, and by reflecting as much of that light as we can we increase the total amount of goodness in the world. 

I don't believe these things in the way that I believe in evolution, or that the earth is round. But loving these images has helped me. 

Again, this may seem silly to you. I wish you well, though. 50 sounds young to me, and there's a good chance you'll find your way through this.

[AFTT47]

Dragonfly, consider this:

The God of the Bible is supposed to be omniscient (he knows everything).

If that is true, he KNEW at the moment he created you what your ultimate fate is. Why would he deliberately create a being he KNOWS is bound for Hell?

This is the kind of thing Christian's don't like to think about because there is no rational answer. In the Christian universe, God has ultimate culpability. It's all on him.

Did you ask to be created the way you are? Did you ask to be created at all? You are powerless in the fantasy Christian universe. God created you as you are. Even if he gave you free-will, his omniscience means he KNEW what you would do with that free-will even as he created you! He is culpable for everything you do!

It's as if I am an engineer and I build a car with a wooden dowel to connect the steering wheel with the steering mechanism. My knowledge as an engineer means I KNOW that the wooden dowel lacks sufficient strength. I KNOW that it will fail. If somebody drives that car and kills somebody, it's MY fault because I designed it KNOWING it wasn't safe!

That's the situation with God and Hell. How can you or I, mere creations of an all-powerful, all-knowing being be culpable for our actions when he designed us - knowing exactly what we do before he even created us?!

Understand this and Hell becomes an obvious fantasy, totally devoid of fear. This is the freedom of atheism. Allow your reason to expose the fear of Hell for the scam that it is. Ask yourself, "Does it make any sense?"

[purplepurpose]

At the age of 12 this ex-muslim got already brainwashed so much that he tried to kill himself to avoid hell. Watch his interview.

[HappySkeptic]

2. What kinds of things do you fill the holes with? I am very depressed about losing my elderly parents soon and just the reality that there is no God. I wake up every day and feel this overwhelming sense of loss. I don't want to get out of bed. I am seeing a psychologist who was raised in a cult, and I'm trying to get help with the sense of grief. 

...

One of the big questions and fears that I have is how to cope with aging as someone who doesn't believe in God. As you're losing your strength and independence, what do you have to look forward to? How do you deal with the impending extinction that will occur soon? If I were religious, I'd cling to religion and find some hope in that. As someone who doesn't believe in God, I don't know how to have the strength to face those realities in life. I don't hear of old atheists talking about dying soon, and I wish they would. If you have a video recommendation (or book, but I'd think that'd be less helpful), please do share.

I deconverted 6 years ago, though I haven't gone cold-turkey on church.  I am an atheist Unitarian Universalist.  That simply means that I find the community of church, and the quest for ultimate meaning to be valuable, despite not believing in any gods or afterlife.

To "fill the holes", my current philosophy is that each moment of each life has value.  To whom, I'm not sure -- to just that person?  To the universe itself?  I don't know.  I just think that if each moment does not have value, then by extension, nothing has value.

In Christianity, we are taught that an infinite afterlife is far more valuable than anything on Earth.  That is a terrible lie, because not only is there no afterlife, but it is a terrible thing to devalue each moment of life.  In each moment, whether it be painful or joyous, I am a witness to the wonder and mystery of life, and the unfolding of the universe.  When a family member dies, I am a witness to the value of their life, and how their life interconnects with mine and others.  In the future, when no-one remembers us, we will still have existed, and are a part of the fixed history of humanity.

I do not fear the billions of years that I did not exist before I was born.  I don't fear the trillions that will exist after I die.  For me, there is only each moment, as a witness to all the at is good and bad.  If I cannot value this moment, then no moments have value, whether I live 70 years or an infinite number.

I think everyone has to build their own story of meaning.  Mine is constantly evolving.  Mankind has created countless religions to quell their fears.  Forget the myths of the past, and come up with your own story that meshes with what you truly believe.  Good luck!