Lying for God

[robvalue]

Allah really needs to get his butt down here and sort this mess out.

[Mystic]

And here is the ones I referenced:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ {35}
[Shakir 24:35] Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
[Pickthal 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.
[Yusufali 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

Sahih International: [It is] He who made for you from the green tree, fire, and then from it you ignite.

Pickthall: Who hath appointed for you fire from the green tree, and behold! ye kindle from it.

Yusuf Ali: "The same Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! ye kindle therewith (your own fires)!

Shakir: He Who has made for you the fire (to burn) from the green tree, so that with it you kindle (fire).

Muhammad Sarwar: He has created fire for you out of the green tree from which you can kindle other fires.

Mohsin Khan: He, Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! You kindle therewith.

Arberry: who has made for you out of the green tree fire and lo, from it you kindle.'




And a tree (olive) that springs forth from Mount Sinai, that grows (produces) oil, and (it is a) relish for eaters.* (Surat al-Mu’minun (The Believers):20).



By the figs, and the olives. By Mount of Sinai. And this city of security. *(Surat at-Tin (The Fig): 1-3)



And there is many verses. Like "it's not for you to make it's tree"

And other verses like "do not approach this tree"... and Iblis promising eternality and exaltdness through it.

[Minimalist]

Take for example, the fact I am afflicted by madness to a great degree

For once you said something right.

[Mystic]

Okay. Very nice hiding that verse in English between the lines.

But the word "like" is used to say "explicitly" that this is an example given with a tree.
How does that relate to saying that "a tree" is not actually a "tree"?

This is a rule you put, there is no reason to assume Allah (swt) will always say "this is a parable here"... because not eloquent. If something in many places is proven to be a parable, then perhaps most of it's uses in Quran, God meant in that way.

It's like the verses clarifying what is meant by disbelief, that is some verses are explicit in that the context is if the truth has reached or been shown, then God's wrath, where as he makes exception to those without power (weakness) to believe based on proof or reject it, and that their trial is different, and God is forgiving merciful.

He doesn't need to repeat the exception everywhere nor clarification, it's not eloquent to do so.

The same with parables. It would be highly uneloquent, in that he states, and "and that was a parable there". It's insult to our intelligence as well.

Clarification is only needed once or two times.

[WinterHold]

---

And here is the ones I referenced:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ {35}
[Shakir 24:35] Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
[Pickthal 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.
[Yusufali 24:35] Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.

Sahih International: [It is] He who made for you from the green tree, fire, and then from it you ignite.

Pickthall: Who hath appointed for you fire from the green tree, and behold! ye kindle from it.

Yusuf Ali: "The same Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! ye kindle therewith (your own fires)!

Shakir: He Who has made for you the fire (to burn) from the green tree, so that with it you kindle (fire).

Muhammad Sarwar: He has created fire for you out of the green tree from which you can kindle other fires.

Mohsin Khan: He, Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! You kindle therewith.

Arberry: who has made for you out of the green tree fire and lo, from it you kindle.'




And a tree (olive) that springs forth from Mount Sinai, that grows (produces) oil, and (it is a) relish for eaters.* (Surat al-Mu’minun (The Believers):20).



By the figs, and the olives. By Mount of Sinai. And this city of security. *(Surat at-Tin (The Fig): 1-3)



And there is many verses. Like "it's not for you to make it's tree"

And other verses like "do not approach this tree"... and Iblis promising eternality and exaltdness through it.

---

No. You said that the "tree" mentioned in Moses's story is not actually a tree.
My reply to you was "no; it is a tree".
Then I provided you with links from both "Sunni and Shiite" interpretations, some are as ancient as 1000 years.

But you replied to me with what is above.
Obviously you are not reading what I'm writing because we all know what you're here for. So please; if you have a reply worthy of a scholar; provide it.

[Minimalist]

Moses is a fictional character you two.  The "tree" can be a bush, a sequoia, or a whole fucking forest if the author wants it to be.

Both of you need to grow the fuck up.

[purplepurpose]

Moses is a fictional character you two.  The "tree" can be a bush, a sequoia, or a whole fucking forest if the author wants it to be.

Both of you need to grow the fuck up.

It's badass to carry such "acid" in your head. It's much easier to accept logical worldview. Those two are badass even if they talk nonsense.

[WinterHold]

Okay. Very nice hiding that verse in English between the lines.

But the word "like" is used to say "explicitly" that this is an example given with a tree.
How does that relate to saying that "a tree" is not actually a "tree"?

This is a rule you put, there is no reason to assume Allah (swt) will always say "this is a parable here"... because not eloquent. If something in many places is proven to be a parable, then perhaps most of it's uses in Quran, God meant in that way.

It's like the verses clarifying what is meant by disbelief, that is some verses are explicit in that the context is if the truth has reached or been shown, then God's wrath, where as he makes exception to those without power (weakness) to believe based on proof or reject it, and that their trial is different, and God is forgiving merciful.

He doesn't need to repeat the exception everywhere nor clarification, it's not eloquent to do so.

The same with parables. It would be highly uneloquent, in that he states, and "and that was a parable there". It's insult to our intelligence as well.

Clarification is only needed once or two times.

No. When a God speaks, I expect him to be very obvious in displaying his message, I also expect every sentence to have a meaning.
Symbolism is cool when a Satanic gang commit crimes. It's also cool in a teenager poetry journal. But it's not a respected way for a God to speak. A God demanding all creatures to worship him must be obvious.

He is a God. He can repeat clarification everywhere, and still be obvious and eloquent. And that's what the Quran is.

[Mystic]

God has said in Quran he spoke of all (types) of parables, and emphasized by these parables, he will guide some, and will not misguide by them but the trangressors.

I wish you luck Atlas.

[Astreja]

It's not excuses, I can't tell difference between an Angel or Jinn that is deceiving me, I can't even discern the holy spirit from false claimants of that,  this is part of why I am so ill.  The holy book however has brought me back to reality and realizing I have to practice rituals like five daily prayers, recite Quran, and also other Du'as taught by Islam, and inshallah, I be able to move forward in the journey.

At this point,  I can't tell the difference between demon, devils, Angels, or spirits of Prophets or deceivers, I can't discern the truth. My 6th sense is corrupt.

It doesn't sound like your religion is serving you very well at all, MK. If you're in such a state of confusion, rituals are just going to make it worse.