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For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
#41
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 23, 2018 at 3:00 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:could have been a month yeat or 100 bazillion years!!!

Take it up with these fucktards  You know, they think they are every bit as holy as you are!

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-cre...-is-a-day/

Quote:In this chapter, Ken Ham shows how reading the creation account in a straightforward way, applying the proper hermeneutic for interpreting historical narrative, and considering the other passages of Scripture on this subject will lead one to conclude that the word for “day” in the creation account is a 24-hour day.

Now, to be fair, I consider Ken Ham to be a world-class fucking idiot.  But then, dripshit, I think the same of you.

yec all think this way.. in the end it does not matter why? because the bible does not define what a day s outside evening and morning, everything ele is speculation.. and again before there was a sun/day 4 there was no WAY like ham or not to mark the passage of time. so again t could have been 24 hours but it also could be 100 hours without the sun to plot actual minutes no one could know. So in the end the only truth is we don't know for sure. we can only speculate, and however you divide it it is not beyond God to accomplish, as the only bit that has to do with evolution is provided for "in the beginning" and between chapters 2 and 3... the rest is in house christian stuff that has no bearing on the assimilation of evolutionary theory.

That said the "in the beginning God created Heavens and the Earth.." that bit stands alone apart from the 7 days mentioned here. In the 7 days mentioned here light and darkness was the only thing created day one.
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#42
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
Quote:in the end it does not matter why?

No, it doesn't matter because it is simply ancient bullshit that modern morons still think is real.
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#43
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 17, 2018 at 6:30 pm)android17ak47 Wrote: "sorry but no, the god of the hebrews cannot recant the genesis account.

But... but, Yahweh Sabaoth was the Babylonian war god, the god of the armies, (the Lord of hosts ... a "host" is a battle formation).
The Hebrews wanted help with their battles ... so they picked him, (and of course wrote that he "picked" them). Anyone smell a rat ?  

You can recant yer wine, you can recant yer vows, but ya can't recant yer Genesis.
You can quote me on that one. Uh huh.

Indubitably
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#44
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 23, 2018 at 2:54 pm)Drich Wrote:
(October 17, 2018 at 6:30 pm)android17ak47 Wrote: "sorry but no, the god of the hebrews cannot recant the genesis account.
."

what a poor closed minded view of the little world you think you live in..

So genesis 1:1 through genesis 2:3 gives a 7 day account of creation including a rest.

1 starts out "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, but the earth was without form and empty..." there is no time line here sport.. Again NO TIME LINE for the creation of the cosmos. did you notice that? it simply says in the beginning God did X and Y and X and Y so happen to repersent everything outside of this atmosphere, and God did so without a time limit. could have been a month yeat or 100 bazillion years!!!

riddle me this.. did you world view get any bigger just now?

Day one. God created light.. not the sun, read it again God created light, from a planetary wide perspective the sky for the first time lit up think dreary over cast day where there is light but no idea where the sun is... then darkness again and that was considered to be a day.. 

But without the sun with and not being able to see the stars planet side... how can you assume that 24 hours had elapsed? the word does not say 24 hours had elapsed only one day had passed. could have been 20 hours or 23 hours or 24 and 1/2 hours or 24 days.. years... months... decades.... 24 millenia... we only have the light and the darkness to count the passing of a day,  and we do not know how long that time was. To God... it was one day. which we are told to us may seem like a 1000 years...

Checking the oil again.. has your little world gotten any bigger yet???

Next point of truth.. this day and darkness thing wasn't a one or two day deal... it wasn't till day 4 was complete that TIME was invented. meaning a way to count the days. Ie the sun moon and stars... so 24 hour period was impossible to gauge till this point in time.

From then in two days God need not make a finish product, only plant the seed or put evolution of what was called for in motion.. by placing one pool of slime in the right spot to become trees or grass or birds or people..

That said genesis 2:4 forward is a completely different story. Genesis 2 is the story that tell of Jesus' creation of Adam and Eve and the Garden of eden that happened between day 3 and 4 of the Father's creation of the rest of the world... The garden/Created by Christ was a perfect picture of the world 6000 years ago when Adam and Eve was dispelled from the garden. meaning Adam was compatible with the evolution of humanity, plants and animals.. While in the garden Adam and eve were immortal per the tree of life and when they sinned they died.

hold on to something because you world where bible and science can not mix is about to be obliterated..

But all that said the important thing here again was there no time line between the end of genesis 2 the completion of the Garden and the beginning of genesis 3 which happened 6000 years ago which marked the exodus of the garden... which means the whole of your little evolutionary world could fit well with in the garden narrative without changing a blessed word of the bible, nor we not change anything in evolution except to replace natural and nature/selection with Hand of God.  

and boom, This is how genesis completely assimilates and consumes the whole of evolution without changing 1 blessed word of the bible. No time line between the end of gen 2 and the start of 3 means you can take as looooooooooooong as you'd like to say evolution took, with adam and eve fit snuggly in the garden waiting till that moment 6000 years ago whee boredom of living forever in a garden 2/3 of the US over took eve and she had to taste the one thing in that whole garden she never even touched! then count the genealogies forward to Christ and add about 2000 years to that and we come to now...

So.. check and mate sport.

the fact of the matter is that the isrealites/hebrews had their own personal version of a god, and after this god was made up just like other cultures made up their own personal versions of gods, the hebrews gave him attributes including copycatting what other prior gods had done giving their personal god credit for these things as time went on, and these oral and written traditions as seen in the hebrew scriptures and holy bible are evident for how fake this version of god is just like all other gods are fake. 

One thing I love about this god is that he is just as evasive as any other invisible noninteracting version of gods humans have invented, and just like in other cultures, this god never reveals itsself to humans in other cultures, just to individual jews once in a great while, and always in the form of a hallucenation, or im sorry I mean vision, something less than reality. This is no different from how individuals confirm the existance of a god in other religious cultures that believe in other gods. No god has ever just outright shown itsself or spoke to more than one individual at a time. Two people cant hallucenate the same thing at the same time to confirm it wasnt just thier mind playing tricks on them.

You explain me this, why in the heck would any real god just let humans around the world for thousands of years live their entire lives only being aware of a false religion and worship another god or gods, not ever having a chance to hear what is true and know it, then punish them after death for rejecting a truth they never heard? 

Theres a reason why there has been so many gods worshipped and religions conceived by humans yet no god has ever just set things straight so humans wouldnt die having lived a lie. That is because we are the ones who created gods, not the other way around, and these scriptures are sooo evident of this. Sure when taken litterally the history accounts in genesis are myths, thats because no god ever told a man to say and write these things down for others to believe, its all religious tradition that has to blame for this, and the gods that are given credit for these litteral feets are just as manmade as the myths that go along with these stories in all scriptures.

(October 23, 2018 at 4:30 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(October 17, 2018 at 6:30 pm)android17ak47 Wrote: "sorry but no, the god of the hebrews cannot recant the genesis account.

But... but, Yahweh Sabaoth was the Babylonian war god, the god of the armies, (the Lord of hosts ... a "host" is a battle formation).
The Hebrews wanted help with their battles ... so they picked him, (and of course wrote that he "picked" them). Anyone smell a rat ?  

You can recant yer wine, you can recant yer vows, but ya can't recant yer Genesis.
You can quote me on that one. Uh huh.

Indubitably

religion needs apologists to make up for how fictional these stories have been revealed to be. People believe in thier god and religion so blindly they just cant realize they have been fooled by a false religion, made up by people so long ago who couldnt but help both steal stories from other cultures to give thier own personal version of god credit for fantastic events that were said to have happened, and honestly thought dreams and hallucenations by respected individuals in thier religious communities were communications from the supernatural. Thank goodness for modern science, we can now explain how all of these things happen naturally, both in nature and in the mind. I just wish I hadnt been born in a time where humans still believed superstitious hogwash and killed and oppressed each other over the nonsense laws a few individuals long ago made up.
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#45
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 29, 2018 at 4:12 am)android17ak47 Wrote: the fact of the matter is that the israelites/hebrews had their own personal version of a god, and after this god was made up just like other cultures made up their own personal versions of gods, the hebrews gave him attributes including copycatting what other prior gods had done giving their personal god credit for these things as time went on, and these oral and written traditions as seen in the hebrew scriptures and holy bible are evident for how fake this version of god is just like all other gods are fake. 
awe.. how quaint trying to summarize and dismiss based on what 'others' have done in the region... except this God was the only "one God" religion. And not to mention the rules and religious observance were all counter culture. Not to mention the dietary restrictions made the jews a very peculiar people when compared to the others in this region.

Quote:One thing I love about this god is that he is just as evasive as any other invisible noninteracting version of gods humans have invented, and just like in other cultures, this god never reveals itsself to humans in other cultures, just to individual jews once in a great while, and always in the form of a hallucination, or im sorry I mean vision, something less than reality.
you know what I like/dis like about you? the out right abandonment and retreat from a topical discussion that you clearly copied from some place else that you didn't feel like you could argue. to this more basic low brow yah huh, to a nut/uh argument. and it only took week or so to get here.

That said God is ever interactive with his followers. I can personally attest to the time and effort he has spent with me and others like me. This is the only religion where God promises to directly interact with people. and the reason it has been around so long as the majority of the people have found this promise to be true.

Quote: This is no different from how individuals confirm the existence of a god in other religious cultures that believe in other gods. No god has ever just outright shown itself or spoke to more than one individual at a time. Two people cant hallucinate the same thing at the same time to confirm it wasn't just their mind playing tricks on them.
here's the thing sport. Religions are propped up by Demons, society and one is supported by God. People are not stupid. they may not be able to discern whether society is fueling a religion or God or Demon, they simply know a power exists and can be accessed if you xyz. Now people will continue to follow a religion if they keep getting what they are promised. their xyz.. Now if society is supporting this religion then when society falls xyz can not be full filled and religion falls.. If a demon support a religion people know the same if xyz if being met then for most they can not distinguish that between God or a demon. When the demon leaves so too does xyz. Here with Christianity not the religion but bible based Christianity xyz is defined as a personal direct relationship with God. This is almost impossible for society to fake or provide because this promise extends past a given sceity's reach. this also too extends past any demonic influence because the relationship is not based in morality but forgiveness. like it or not sport.. people are getting what they are promised by Christianity world around. and have done for literally 1000s of years. If God is a mystery to you, it's because you fell through the cracks of religion. or you did not want xyz.. If you do not want a personal relationship with God then why would he make any effort with you? if you fell through the cracks and found a life without God.. how pretentious does one have to be, to claim to be able to invalidate the life and beliefs of trillions of people over a couple thousand years, based on a few years of personal lukewarm/lackadaisical experience?

Quote:You explain me this, why in the heck would any real god just let humans around the world for thousands of years live their entire lives only being aware of a false religion and worship another god or gods, not ever having a chance to hear what is true and know it, then punish them after death for rejecting a truth they never heard? 
Do you want to know what Jesus himself had to say when asked or do you want to know what I think?
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

In essence not everyone here in this world is 'wheat' not everyone is of the seed of God. God does not love everyone God loves everyone who simply accepts the offering of Christ by believing in him.

Quote:There's a reason why there has been so many gods worshipped and religions conceived by humans yet no god has ever just set things straight so humans wouldn't die having lived a lie.
the only lie we are under is the idea we get to decide who is and is not 'saved.' Salvation is not something we can control or elect to do by a chant ceremony or procedure. Christ and Christ alone get to decide who is and who is not Christian. You really didn't think just because you call yourself a christian makes you christian? meaning the only people in heaven are christian.. We already know that christianity is not the only religion being represented in heaven, by the nature of the relationship God had with the jews. Noah, abraham isaac joseph daniel solomon David all were up held by God the father as being very righteous men, meaning they will be in heaven, and had nothing to do with what we know as christianity. So also remember before moses men like joseph isaac abraham noah ect they were all simply deist as there wasn't an organized religion yet.

Hebrews 11 tells us that the word/Jesus Christ as in John 1:1 will judge or divide us like a double edged sword cutting us down into thi slices so that everything is transparent and everything is known. It is with this level and attention to detail that we will be judged, and again it is up to christ to determine who is and is not saved not our ceremonies not our creeds not our methodology. those assurances were given to those who do not know the holy Spirit and are unsure of their salvation. the problem with this assurance is it is brand specific and exclusionary. This is not what Jesus Teaches.

That said their will be those who see hell. alot of them will have considered themselves 'christian.'

Quote:That is because we are the ones who created gods, not the other way around, and these scriptures are sooo evident of this.
be semi smart about this.. if we created God then why would his 'rules' counter the rules of the culture? From the beginning this was true. Marriage in judaism is a big one. this gave the women rights and even control over the household, where before this women unless wealthy were see as slaves. Then what about rules to slavery.. yes yes go ahead and tell me how evil slavery is robot (because I said a key word that demands you be appalled and can't think straight till you tell me off) but now consider before judaism there were no rules in the society concerning slaves. no time limits no set pay no repercussion for bad treatment! Then an over all demand for cleanliness. certain foods, identification and prohibition against mold in the home, etc.. again if society was the creator of God then why did society demand they abolish all of the things they were comfortable with?!!? Then on the flip side how do you get millions of people to follow these laws and or rules if they all were not witnessed to God one way or another?

Even now society hates the rules of God, matter of fact not one person in the church can live a life free from what God calls sin.. so then why not simply align God with man's morality/ why not have God support society's morality why must we stand against it if we indeed created God? Then ask yourself what holds us here? Don't be stupid and assume people are all stupid. In fact we stand because God has given us what he has promised and we know who we stand for.

Quote: Sure when taken litterally the history accounts in genesis are myths, thats because no god ever told a man to say and write these things down for others to believe, its all religious tradition that has to blame for this, and the gods that are given credit for these litteral feets are just as manmade as the myths that go along with these stories in all scriptures.
I just showed you how a complete 7 day creation was completely plausible and in line with an evolutionary account without changing a word of the bible, and you just spent 1/2 hour typing up basically what amounts to a personal attack on religion itself then you want to sum up like you just refuted my post? Ah...no sorry sport you don't get to be intellectually dishonest here and not get called on your weak minded antics.

Quote:religion needs apologists to make up for how fictional these stories have been revealed to be. People believe in thier god and religion so blindly they just cant realize they have been fooled by a false religion, made up by people so long ago who couldnt but help both steal stories from other cultures to give their own personal version of god credit for fantastic events that were said to have happened, and honestly thought dreams and hallucenations by respected individuals in their religious communities were communications from the supernatural. Thank goodness for modern science, we can now explain how all of these things happen naturally, both in nature and in the mind. I just wish I hadnt been born in a time where humans still believed superstitious hogwash and killed and oppressed each other over the nonsense laws a few individuals long ago made up.

religion needs apologist because dishonest little high schoolers copy and paste formal objections people have about sweeping portions of the bible and come on message boards like this , then paste this formal work as their own.. so then an apologist goes line by line and invalidates the formal objection.. now normally if the work was yours, and not plagiarized you would be able to defend your position but if it is not then you spend 1/2 an hour making fun of religion the best way you can then in summery try and dismiss the rebuttal as if you addressed point by point.

sorry little sport this is not going to work here.
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#46
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 23, 2018 at 3:32 pm)Drich Wrote:
(October 23, 2018 at 3:00 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Take it up with these fucktards  You know, they think they are every bit as holy as you are!

https://answersingenesis.org/days-of-cre...-is-a-day/


Now, to be fair, I consider Ken Ham to be a world-class fucking idiot.  But then, dripshit, I think the same of you.

yec all think this way.. in the end it does not matter why? because the bible does not define what a day s outside evening and morning, everything ele is speculation.. and again before there was a sun/day 4 there was no WAY like ham or not to mark the passage of time. so again t could have been 24 hours but it also could be 100 hours without the sun to plot actual minutes no one could know. So in the end the only truth is we don't know for sure. we can only speculate, and however you divide it it is not beyond God to accomplish, as the only bit that has to do with evolution is provided for "in the beginning" and between chapters 2 and 3... the rest is in house christian stuff that has no bearing on the assimilation of evolutionary theory.

That said the "in the beginning God created Heavens and the Earth.." that bit stands alone apart from the 7 days mentioned here. In the 7 days mentioned here light and darkness was the only thing created day one.

There was no "day 1", if there was no way to identify a "day". WE have defined a day as 1 rotation of the Earth. Light is (incorrectly) said to be created before any source of light, and incorrectly placed in a time frame that did not exist. It's all bullshit. 
A "day" is not a day if there is no definition yet. Light is "created" before the source of light. 
The humans who cooked up the Bible did not get that light (photons) are generated by certain celestial objects.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#47
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
1 In the beginning Erú Ilúvatar, the One, made the Ainur of His thought; and they made a great Music before Him. In this Music the World was begun; for Ilúvatar made visible the song of the Ainur, and they beheld it as a light in the darkness. And many among them became enamored of its beauty, and of its history which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision. Therefore, Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the secret fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä.


2 Then those of the Ainur who desired it arose and entered into the World at the beginning of Time; and it was their task to achieve it, and by their labors to fulfill the vision which they had seen. Long they labored in the regions of Eä, which are vast beyond the thoughts of Elves and Men, until in the time appointed was made Arda, the Kingdom of Earth. Then they put on the raiment of Earth and descended into it, and dwelt therein. (The Silmarillion: Valaquenta: 1-2)


2 In that time [of the Beginning of Days] the Valar brought order to the seas and the lands and the mountains, and Yavanna at last planted the seeds that she had long devised. And since, when the fires were subdued or buried beneath the primeval hills, there was need of light, Aulë at the prayer of Yavanna wrought two mighty lamps for the lighting of the Middle-earth which he had built amid the encircling seas. Then Varda filled the lamps and Manwë hallowed them, and the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days. One lamp they raised to the north of Middle-earth, and it was named Illuin; and the other was raised in the south, and it was named Ormal; and the light of the lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so all was lit as it were in changeless day.


3 The seeds that Yavanna had sown began swiftly to sprout and to burgeon, and there arose a multitude of growing things great and small, mosses and grasses and great ferns, and trees whose tops were crowned with cloud as they were living mountains, but whose feet were wrapped in green twilight. And beasts came forth and dwelt in the grassy plains, or in the rivers and the lakes, or walked in the shadows of the woods. As yet not flower had bloomed nor any bird had sung, for those things waited still their time in the bosom of Yavanna; but wealth there was of her imagining, and nowhere more rich than in the midmost parts of the Earth, where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. And there upon the isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was the first dwelling of the Valar when all things were young, and new-made grass was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers; and they were long content.
(The Silmarillion 1:2-3)


It is told that even as Varda ended her labours, and they were long, when first Menelmacar strode up the sky and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Elven Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar. By the starlit mere of Cuiviénen, Water of Awakening, they rose from the sleep of Ilúvatar; and while they dwelt yet silent by Cuiviénen their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight, and have revered Varda Elentári above all the Valar. (The Silmarillion, 3:8)

Checkmate Christians! Owned
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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#48
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 17, 2018 at 6:30 pm)android17ak47 Wrote: This is something I posted today on youtube videos where Christians have defended creationism but attributes evolution to his creation, as well as the big bang. Religious folks have no business using receant discoveries that contradict the claims in genesis. Either you trust what the prophets and patriarchs said about god having revealed to them, or dont trust them at all which means you have noone to trust from ancient days who claimed he exists and told them so. If you cant trust everything these people in the bible said, then you cant say the god that told them these things even exists because you rely on thier word that the god of the hebrews exists, and exists alone as a god and no other.

Here's my comment I left on the videos. How can you honestly argue with this? If you can, ide love to hear your reply.

"sorry but no, the god of the hebrews cannot recant the genesis account.

The fact of the matter is that the men in ancient days who want the rest of us to believe in the version of the god they alone spoke to, say this imaginary proprietary god for the jews told them it happened that way as depicted in genesis. if any other religion who's god claimed creationism were to say it happened any other way, christians muslims and jews would jump all over thier case to say that thier errors inscripture proves thier god doesnt exist or else thier prophets wouldnt make errors in judgement when providing fallible details about creation.

You dont get to recant what was said in genesis. People depend on the people in old days who had visions of this god to know if this god exists or not, and look at what they say this god whispered in  thier ears alone. this god that only the jews knew about and worshipped is a false one and the scriptures written prove this god never existed and told anybody anything. it was dellusional human beings hallucenating this shit up, and as smart as we think we are in the 21st century, we are still gullible enough as a species to accept superstition, and it seems the jewish brand of superstition rules the world.

If in the future a new religion arises and with a new version of god who gets credit for creation, and attributes evolution and big bang to the creation, then a few hundred years go by and the religion grows expedentially, humans will favor this religion because the believers will convince others of this god because of the accuracy of this god's creation story, and the followers will assume this god had actually been around longer than when the religion was created on record, and the religion's who's scriptures include the jhebrew god will die off in favor of the one who's god did it the way nature seems to have done it.

its the a, b, c's of creating a religion. You attribute your claims of this god's creation to common knowledge of the time. Just like everybody back in the days genesis was wrote believed the earth was flat, you get books like job that will say the earth was shaped like a clay under a seal, which is flat and circular, and that god will shake his enemies off of it, which was believed back in the day that people could fall off the flat earth's edges, and that the earth stands on pillars. This was "common knowledge" back in those days everywhere, so the jews gave thier god credit for this style of an earth's creation. now we know this was a lie, just like the cosmos and all living creatures were created within 6 24hour periods. The god of the hebrews never existed, and the shit the people who validated his existence show it by what they said god told them about creation. They made him up and pretended he talked these things to them."
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#49
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(October 29, 2018 at 10:58 am)Drich Wrote: ... except this God was the only "one God" religion.


Uhm... except they werent'?

Teh Egyptians had tried monotheism previously.

Then you have (And still actually have) Zoastrans practicing Dualism before the Hebres shaved things down for themselves.

Jus' sayin', is all.

Not at work.
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#50
RE: For those who believe the god of abraham was behind the big bang or evolution
(November 1, 2018 at 10:24 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:
(October 29, 2018 at 10:58 am)Drich Wrote: ... except this God was the only "one God" religion.


Uhm... except they werent'?

Teh Egyptians had tried monotheism previously.

Then you have (And still actually have) Zoastrans practicing Dualism before the Hebres shaved things down for themselves.

Jus' sayin', is all.

Not at work.

Chinese monotheism predates Genesis by at least 8 centuries.
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