Question on Theistic Evolution

[GrandizerII]

This is something I've been curious about for a while based on how some theists have described evolution in the past.

From Wikipedia:

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".

Bolded mine. What does that mean exactly? Does natural selection still play a role in theistic evolution? Did God, according to theistic evolution, only cause life to emerge and then let the natural processes of evolution do their thing? Or does he continually do the selecting as opposed to nature?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This is something I've been curious about for a while based on how some theists have described evolution in the past.

From Wikipedia:

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".

Bolded mine. What does that mean exactly? Does natural selection still play a role in theistic evolution? Did God, according to theistic evolution, only cause life to emerge and then let the natural processes of evolution do their thing? Or does he continually do the selecting as opposed to nature?

It means they've found a way to put God in the loop, albeit a totally unprovable and completely unnecessary addition to the theory of evolution.

[Angrboda]

Theistic evolution is an oxymoron. Evolution by definition is unguided. Presumably they mean that God caused the necessary evolutionary steps preceding the evolution of man, and, I'm guessing, that they either would not, or could not, have occurred without God's intervention. I don't see the point of it unless it is something necessarily different from naturalistic evolution in that naturalistic evolution could not have reached the ends that it did.

Last week, we had a meeting of the "God does exist?" meetup group, hosted by an evangelical Catholic. The topic of discussion was evil in the world, demons, and the devil. He made a point of saying how the fact that there was so much good in humanity simply prompted him to necessarily believe that something or someone had to be behind it. I pointed out that I see the same thing and say, "My, isn't evolution amazing!" To which he responded that he saw the same thing and wondered, "Why is it so amazing?" My response was that the current best speculation upon the matter was that it was because evolution favors processes which dissipate less total energy, i.e. those that are better at reducing entropy. To which he responded that he was again wondering "Why," like a little kid asking about the sky. Why does life constrain entropy? I didn't think of it at the time, but the answer is that processes that constrain entropy end up causing more effects, as a result of their energy misering ways, and one of those results is the further creation of similarly energy miserly processes (other organisms). Thus the why is that evolution begets more evolution whereas non-evolution does not; it's a self-perpetuating process. There's no 'why' behind it -- it's simply a logical sequence that follows like one domino causing the next one to fall. No special sauce is needed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Theistic evolution seeks to explain away the issues with evolution. "How come we're here, now? Because God planned it that way." Meaning God created the Earth 4,000,000,000+ years ago so that humans would be ready when Jesus came along 2,000+ years ago. Amusingly weird.

[Silver]

Strangely, I had never thought of it from that perspective before.

It goes to show how the religion had absolutely no idea precisely how old the earth was and thus it was created from the limited knowledge people possessed at the time.

[Cod]

God is an amazing soup maker I believe.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Strangely, I had never thought of it from that perspective before.

It goes to show how the religion had absolutely no idea precisely how old the earth was and thus it was created from the limited knowledge people possessed at the time.

How can you have a conduit to GOD if you don't know what his master plan is? That revealed knowledge is what sets the priesthood part from ordinary pedos. I MEAN ordinary people. (Don't forget to edit that, Zilla!)

[HappySkeptic]

This is something I've been curious about for a while based on how some theists have described evolution in the past.

From Wikipedia:


Bolded mine. What does that mean exactly? Does natural selection still play a role in theistic evolution? Did God, according to theistic evolution, only cause life to emerge and then let the natural processes of evolution do their thing? Or does he continually do the selecting as opposed to nature?

It means they've found a way to put God in the loop, albeit a totally unprovable and completely unnecessary addition to the theory of evolution.

Exactly.  If a god is required to do the selecting, then the theory of evolution is wrong, full stop.  If a god is not required, then inserting a god would be ridiculous.  It's not even "god of the gaps", it is "shoehorn god in, despite no gaps".

[Drich]

This is something I've been curious about for a while based on how some theists have described evolution in the past.

From Wikipedia:

Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".

Bolded mine. What does that mean exactly? Does natural selection still play a role in theistic evolution? Did God, according to theistic evolution, only cause life to emerge and then let the natural processes of evolution do their thing? Or does he continually do the selecting as opposed to nature?

In essence God knowing how to manipulate nature for things to evolve into a finished or final product, god plants the first dna seed or God places two chemicals in the right condition at the right time, and protects and fosters growth much like you would in a green house or garden.

God is the God of the natural universe, then would it not stand to reason that the processes he would use to establish and maintain order be 'natural?' the only time God says he works supernaturally is to establish a prophet or in the case of Jesus his deity. Aside from these points anything God could/would do would be considered to be 'natural' by definition.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

So..... for said deity to 'Guide' the process.....

They aren't just watching critters do the naughty....

They are picking and choosing which critters actually do the deed.

So much for the 'Free will' side of things then, hey?

On top of which virus gets into which germ-line and mutates things up etc.

"God! The ultimate puppet-master!"