Madeiline McCann coverup

[OakTree500]

I wouldn't call it criminal. That's the same kind of reasoning people use to victim-blame rape victims. No parent leaves their kids alone in a hotel room thinking they might be kidnapped.

Just to highlight here, that I think this, regardless of how it's happened, this is FAR different from the quotes above. Disclaimer: I do not advocate that mind set when it comes to rape, of any person, be it male or female.

In this case, a kidnap has supposedly occurred, on an unguarded house with unlocked doors. Correct, nobody ever WANTS that to happen nor would you rationally expect it, but it's the very same as leaving your house unlocked and being surprised if it's burgled. It's not 1935 any more, and very few people actually leave their doors unlocked at any time, let alone at night, and when nobody is there. It's VERY different to suggesting the above quotes. People KNOW for a fact, the world is dangerous and when you have kids especially, you want them to be as safe as can be. Not alone, unguarded in an unlocked room 180ft away, not in line of sight. 

Add into that, that they are in a foreign country where crime statistics will be different, and they have most likely little/no knowledge of the level of crime in that particular area or even in the building (from researching, I believe that building alone had a few break in's during the month prior), which yeah they wouldn't know that, but you would want to think that they would at least fucking prep for it in some manner. Simply just stay in the hotel room. Yeah, it's a dampener on the evening, but you have children, which take a higher priority than getting drunk with your friends really.

When booking the room, try to find two rooms that join together [via the middle door] and place the kids in the other room, with ALL OTHER DOORS/WINDOWS LOCKED, that way if the kids get up, they know where you AND you can hear into the room next door, should something be forcefully opened. The point being is, yeah nobody in their right mind thinks it will happen to them, but the shit does happen all the time, and to least your kids, [3 kids as well], ALONE in a room that has doors open which anybody walking past could open (be it stranger, burgler, sexual deviant, any form of person good or bad) and you're fairly far away, completely out of eye sight of the room itself as well......again to me, that's INSANE. 

People wanting to burgle houses, often try every single door on a street/property (if they have access to do that), so maybe this was a burglary gone very wrong as the kid woke up. Maybe it was planned from the kidnappers point of view, IE they scouted them out, waited for the parents to leave etc. That still doesn't rule out that the girl may have simply gotten up at night, like kids do at random times, and just walk out into the night looking for her parents, who were well out of a visible line of sight for her. 

My point is, things would have been 100% different if the parents where WITH there three kids, who they left ALONE in a room with open doors. Kidnap or kids leaving by themselves, either option is CRAZY. Comparing this to victim blaming rape victims is ludicrous. I'm not saying they deserve it because the doors were open, it's just fucking common sense. You don't leave you house open at night in areas of high crime. You don't leave your car unlocked with valuables inside on show. I'm saying that they made some terrible decisions, and are paying for it now.

[Tiberius]

I'm not saying they deserve it because the doors were open, it's just fucking common sense. You don't leave you house open at night in areas of high crime. You don't leave your car unlocked with valuables inside on show. I'm saying that they made some terrible decisions, and are paying for it now.

With all due respect, you didn't say they made some terrible decisions which they are paying for now, you called their actions "criminal". That's what I was arguing against.

If I leave my car unlocked and my phone on display, and it gets stolen, am I a criminal? No.
If a girl walks home alone and gets raped, is she a criminal? No.
If parents leave children unattended in a hotel room, with the doors unlocked, and one of the children gets abducted, are they criminals? No.

You are doing some classic victim blaming. There's no law that the McCann's broke. They were the victims of a crime. The question of whether the crime could have been avoided if they had left the doors locked is a valid one, but ultimately the actual criminal intent is with the perpetrator, not the parents.

[robvalue]

Just cataloguing more thoughts:

The smell of death follows the McCanns around. And only them.

Even if the sniffer dogs were somehow off kilter, they are clearing following something. The McCanns, and only them, left a trail all around them for Eddy to follow. This is not just random misfires. How could they manage to repeatedly fool this dog, if nothing untoward had happened? That’s a serious question. I don’t know the answer. Maybe something could fool him, and somehow this "thing" gets all over their clothes, her toy, their apartment and their rental car.

I would expect innocent people to explain it that way. They don’t know what it is, but obviously something is leading the dogs to them, time and time again. I would expect them to want to know what, and if it’s of any relevance to the case. They didn’t, though. They just scoffed and wanted it to not be talked about.

In the first place though, I'd expect innocent people to be overcome with despair at the news of the smell of death being found in the apartment. This would appear to be new information, that their child might actually have died before being removed. They’d want to know what that meant. Did an intruder try and kidnap her, and it went wrong, and she died? And then they smuggled her out anyway?

Although I’d expect this reaction, it would still come up against the problem of why the smell persisted on their own clothing, and in their rental car two weeks later, when they apparently had been no where near a corpse.

[Shell B]

No cover up is needed. The verdict is they're negligent fucking morons, and that hasn't been covered up at all. It's obvious to anyone.

[OakTree500]

I'm not saying they deserve it because the doors were open, it's just fucking common sense. You don't leave you house open at night in areas of high crime. You don't leave your car unlocked with valuables inside on show. I'm saying that they made some terrible decisions, and are paying for it now.

With all due respect, you didn't say they made some terrible decisions which they are paying for now, you called their actions "criminal". That's what I was arguing against.

If I leave my car unlocked and my phone on display, and it gets stolen, am I a criminal? No.
If a girl walks home alone and gets raped, is she a criminal? No.
If parents leave children unattended in a hotel room, with the doors unlocked, and one of the children gets abducted, are they criminals? No.

You are doing some classic victim blaming. There's no law that the McCann's broke. They were the victims of a crime. The question of whether the crime could have been avoided if they had left the doors locked is a valid one, but ultimately the actual criminal intent is with the perpetrator, not the parents.

Wowsers, ok. If you go back, you'll see I said "I've used the word Criminal in a more general sense", which is my mistake, my bad for that. I'm not implying the are criminals for that, just that it's a incredibly stupid thing to do.  

Do they deserve this? No, of course they don't. Are they pillocks of the highest order for leaving 3 small children alone like that? Yes. Again, I'm not saying they should be locked up just for that alone, but more that they made an epic judgement fail. I don't think they should be locked up for it.

Victim blaming would imply I think they deserve or did something that "made somebody do something, so it's their fault", again this is FAR from that, so maybe I'm doing a bad job of using the right words here. I'm just saying, that if they didn't leave their kids alone in an un-guarded and unlocked room, whilst they were off drinking with there friends [a far distance away from their children], this potentially would not have happened.

[Shell B]

I think they should be charged with criminal neglect. Their neglect led to the probable death of their child. Their neglect was willful, selfish and actually illegal in some places. Here, there is an age restriction for when kids can be left alone for exactly this reason (well, and forks in sockets kind of shit). They may be suffering enough, but I do definitely think they are at least partially to blame for their child's disappearance.

To be clear, the parents are not the victims, so this is not victim blaming. The child is the victim.

[Angrboda]

The distinction between recklessness and criminal negligence lies in the presence or absence of foresight as to the prohibited consequences. Recklessness is usually described as a "malfeasance" where the defendant knowingly exposes another to the risk of injury. The fault lies in being willing to run the risk. But criminal negligence is a "misfeasance" or "nonfeasance" (see omission), where the fault lies in the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest ... The degree of culpability is determined by applying a reasonable-person standard.

Wikipedia || Criminal negligence

[Losty]

@robvalue- I don’t know a lot about the case. Are the parents government agents? Are they crazy rich enough to influence government agents? I don’t understand why the government would conspire to cover up a murder for two average joes. Maybe the girl was abducted, maybe she ran away and was later abducted, maybe her parents really did kill her and they covered it up really well. In any case I highly doubt the government is trying to cover anything up unless there’s something special about this family, maybe there is...I didn’t watch the videos or read the whole thread so maybe I’m missing something?

[Losty]

I'm not saying they deserve it because the doors were open, it's just fucking common sense. You don't leave you house open at night in areas of high crime. You don't leave your car unlocked with valuables inside on show. I'm saying that they made some terrible decisions, and are paying for it now.

With all due respect, you didn't say they made some terrible decisions which they are paying for now, you called their actions "criminal". That's what I was arguing against.

If I leave my car unlocked and my phone on display, and it gets stolen, am I a criminal? No.
If a girl walks home alone and gets raped, is she a criminal? No.
If parents leave children unattended in a hotel room, with the doors unlocked, and one of the children gets abducted, are they criminals? No.

You are doing some classic victim blaming. There's no law that the McCann's broke. They were the victims of a crime. The question of whether the crime could have been avoided if they had left the doors locked is a valid one, but ultimately the actual criminal intent is with the perpetrator, not the parents.

“If parents leave children unattended in a hotel room, with the doors unlocked, and one of the children gets abducted, are they criminals?”

It depends on the age of the child, and the amount of time left alone, the conditions of the hotel room, and the area it’s in. I think I read that the girl was 3, is that right? If so, regardless of whether she was abducted, leaving her alone in a hotel room would be a criminal act in most parts of the US.

[Tiberius]

Wowsers, ok. If you go back, you'll see I said "I've used the word Criminal in a more general sense", which is my mistake, my bad for that. I'm not implying the are criminals for that, just that it's a incredibly stupid thing to do.  

Do they deserve this? No, of course they don't. Are they pillocks of the highest order for leaving 3 small children alone like that? Yes. Again, I'm not saying they should be locked up just for that alone, but more that they made an epic judgement fail. I don't think they should be locked up for it.

Victim blaming would imply I think they deserve or did something that "made somebody do something, so it's their fault", again this is FAR from that, so maybe I'm doing a bad job of using the right words here. I'm just saying, that if they didn't leave their kids alone in an un-guarded and unlocked room, whilst they were off drinking with there friends [a far distance away from their children], this potentially would not have happened.

Ah, ok. Fair enough, I missed that part of your post. Thanks for clarifying, I think we broadly agree on that aspect, I don't doubt that had they not left the children alone, it would be an entirely different situation.