"who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"

[LadyForCamus]

Nothing from within your book is evidence.  You need to accept that.  You DO accept that, which is why you have resorted to appeals to magic. So, why do you keep insisting it’s so?

I think I've observed the magic covering the Quran by observation of most humans and how they perceive clear words that by norms of language mean something but is butchered to mean something entirely different.

It's not that Muslims don't want to understand, it's that they thought their would not be an intense trial, so they became blind and deaf as a result.

The trial - the suggestions and locks and knots and sorcery - this is true. And I've proven it by showing how words by norms of language form a clear meaning, but that in not just one instance, but so many, the flow is cut off, butchered, and people are mind fucked to only see the worst interpretation as the possible one.

You tell me how psychological bias would do that. It doesn't. None of the psychological bias naturalism wise can account for it.

4:59 despite our hadiths arguing by context of flow of the verses before,  Shiites and their scholars, DO NOT, and they argue instead by pure philosophical grounds that those in authority have to be infallible.  They don't even see the context despite so many authenticated hadiths that they have that argue by context.

Something is wrong. Very wrong with all this.

And you have to look at it straight and begin to fight it noble Lady.

Naturalism wise, nothing can account for this.

MK, do you realize that we can use magic to justify literally any claim we want to believe in? I can just as easily say that the reason you don’t accept Christianity as true is because dark magic is making you falsely see the Quran as truth, and preventing you from seeing the true light of Christ. You have no way of proving me wrong, after all. What does it tell you about the reliability of a method, or the validity of a reason, if two people can use the exact same reason (magic), and arrive at two different conclusions?  Two conclusions that are mutually exclusive, no less.

[Mystic]

Claims can happen that are similar or same, one with evidence and one without. But in my case, I've shown evidence of this happening regarding Quran. It doesn't prove Quran to be from God, but it proves there is something sinister mind fucking us regarding Quran.

[Angrboda]

You know, MK, something recently occurred to me regarding the proofs that you've offered on this forum. None of them prove Allah. They could just as easily prove Yahweh or any of a billion other Gods that are not Allah. So your proofs don't support belief in the Quran specifically. For that, as far as I can see, you have no evidence. Much like those who tout Aquinas' five ways, you think they prove more than they actually do. When you get to the bottom of it, they don't prove anything about Allah and the Quran.

Just thought I'd mention it.

I'd like to see this 'evidence' that there is something sinister mind fucking us.

[Mystic]

The proofs of who God is - is different then proofs God exists.

Just like proof that morality is eternal and what consists of morality is two different things.

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I'd like to see this 'evidence' that there is something sinister mind fucking us.

Sure, I will make a thread about this. And go through it. I tried many times, but, the mocking stopped me from completing it. I will bring as much evidence as this as possible and will argue why the norms of language are being mind fucked as we read.

And then with the all the evidence, than we can assess.

[LadyForCamus]

Claims can happen that are similar or same, one with evidence and one without. But in my case, I've shown evidence of this happening regarding Quran. It doesn't prove Quran to be from God, but it proves there is something sinister mind fucking us regarding Quran.

No, you haven’t.  What you’ve proved, at best, is that holy texts are often interpreted differently by different people, or different groups of people, depending on the needs and desires of those groups or individuals. That’s so utterly mundane, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why it’s not evidence of magic. It’s not even unique to Islam.

[Mystic]

Claims can happen that are similar or same, one with evidence and one without. But in my case, I've shown evidence of this happening regarding Quran. It doesn't prove Quran to be from God, but it proves there is something sinister mind fucking us regarding Quran.

No, you haven’t.  What you’ve proved, at best, is that holy texts are often interpreted differently by different people, or different groups of people, depending on the needs and desires of those groups or individuals. That’s so utterly mundane, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why it’s not evidence of magic.

But it's not really that mundane and that simple, and I will argue why in the case of Quran, this is entirely different than how you expressed it.

[LadyForCamus]

No, you haven’t.  What you’ve proved, at best, is that holy texts are often interpreted differently by different people, or different groups of people, depending on the needs and desires of those groups or individuals. That’s so utterly mundane, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why it’s not evidence of magic.

But it's not really that mundane and that simple, and I will argue why in the case of Quran, this is entirely different than how you expressed it.

Go for it. I’m very interested to see how you are going to prove Islam magic is real and Christian magic is false.

[Mystic]

But it's not really that mundane and that simple, and I will argue why in the case of Quran, this is entirely different than how you expressed it.

Go for it.

I will sometime soon.

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But it's not really that mundane and that simple, and I will argue why in the case of Quran, this is entirely different than how you expressed it.

Go for it.  I’m very interested to see how you are going to prove Islam magic is real and Christian magic is false.

It won't prove Islam to be real.

It can be just an re-routing of energy by Illuminati. That they want those who become familiar with the dark forces and their magic on Quran, will invest all hopes in return of the 12th successor (and in the case of it being all plan by them, it would be in vain).

I do believe Quran takes the above seriously and brings that claim to question and has responses to it. 

It can be like the Oracle though in the Matrix, just another control mechanism, for awakened to the system.

[LadyForCamus]

Go for it.

I will sometime soon.

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Go for it.  I’m very interested to see how you are going to prove Islam magic is real and Christian magic is false.

It won't prove Islam to be real.

It can be just an re-routing of energy by Illuminati. That they want those who become familiar with the dark forces and their magic on Quran, will invest all hopes in return of the 12th successor (and in the case of it being all plan by them, it would be in vain).

I do believe Quran takes the above seriously and brings that claim to question and has responses to it. 

It can be like the Oracle though in the Matrix, just another control mechanism, for awakened to the system.

The dark forces are making you think that. They are purposely leading you astray.  They are mind-fucking you so that you cannot see the truth and light of Christ.  I have scripture from the Bible that proves it. You just need to reflect on the Bible with an open heart, and the truth will be made clear to you.

[Mystic]

I would demand evidence of that. However, you are fair to ask evidence, which I always started threads with little bit of regarding this subject but never completed, but to my defense, it was filled with mockery.