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"who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
#1
"who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
Salam

I am going to be talking a lot of technical issues here, but I believe now, after much reflection, the issue of Muta, is all over the Quran, and is different then normal marriage.

Marriage is a type of long term version of "malakat Aymaanihim" (who your Oaths give authority regarding) but there is a non-long term commitment version of this, and I will be going through why I believe Quran has been mistranslated in this regard.

Aside from the absurdity of slave-owning, there is an issue, which some Quranist said, but doesn't make sense, that perhaps some people who needed a place to live where entrusted to Muslims. But that doesn't make sense that men have right to have sex with them, especially if those women are married themselves.

The problem with translating it as slave or right hand possessing type interpretation occurs in extreme in the following verse:

And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. (4:24)

Another way to translate 4:24 in begining...is as follows:


And all married women (are forbidden to you) except those who your Oaths hold..

This is already seeming better why?

Well in the 1st translation, it would mean we are allowed having sex married women that are slaves. That is if two slaves are married - we can have sex with the poor slave's wife if we want to. Such absurd interpretation occurred in hadiths, but never mind them for this one second and let's read it rationally!

Say slavery was forbidden and condemned, as I do believe other verses outright to do so.

What can this mean? It would mean "All Married women except those who your Oath hold...", meaning except who you are married to from them.

This is all already a lot more rational then being able to have sex with a married slave woman!

Next, it continues:

, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those,


This means there is category aside from Married women.....so this means there is category of who your Oaths hold that is allowed, and so the verse here is the right place now to introduce the Muta:


 provided that you seek (them) with your property, being of good will to them not committing fornication therefore to those whom you do muta to, give them their reward as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.


This verse talks about what was known historically as "Muta" but it was never that clear to me, till, I realized that Quran does outright forbid slavery.

The purpose of Muta then is emphasized in the verse that follows:

And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry chaste believing women, then of those whom your oaths hold authority from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; 

That is the purpose of Muta, if we can't get married because we don't have the means or circumstances make it hard, we can have Muta.

The verse then emphasizes on marriage:

Therefore marry them with the permission of their family,


That is you can do muta but if you are going to get married, you still need to ask the permission of their family!


and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken under good treatment, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is upon married women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you are patient is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Now every verse it makes more sense. It's always reminding "except their wives or who their oath's possess".

Now you see, the translations as slavery, it can be a good reason to reject Islam.

We live in a time - where we know how evil slavery is and it's hard to see these verses to be from God if they are indeed about slavery.

There is no reason to really though. 

Instead it emphasized on "Muta".... and so the Quran explained with Muta exactly what the other category of who are Oath's possess are aside from who we marry,  there is a 2nd category which is also allowed and it's called "muta" which means "enjoyment (that ceases)" .
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

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#2
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
You mean.... all you have to do is change what magic book means, and it can mean something wholly different?

Well...that truly is magic!
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


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#3
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
There is a lot of hadiths about Muta being different then marriage and being permissible! But what did I Change? You mean I didn't interpret in absurd way according to the dark magic?

Yes - the book becomes wonderfully magical instead of absurd when you reflect!
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

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#4
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
Does the dark magic cancel out the magical change in magic book? What does magic book have to roll for a saving throw?
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


Reply
#5
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
(November 10, 2018 at 12:12 am)Khemikal Wrote: Does the dark magic cancel out the magical change in magic book?  What does magic book have to roll for a saving throw?

Bro there is no slavery in Quran, the verses taken as that is about that is actually about Muta, get over your ignorance and keep learning!
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

Reply
#6
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
OFC there is, and there really isn't anything to say about your post other than that I applaud your ability to make magic book say something else when magic book says something horrid.

Imagine how much shittier the world would be if believers weren't constantly doing this, eh?
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


Reply
#7
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
Quote:the issue of Muta, is all over the Quran,

Does "muta" mean "shit?"
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#8
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
The hadiths of Ahlulbayt (as) have darkness and crap attributed to them and light and guidance as well. What I just presented, there are hadiths of light and guidance that support it.
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

Reply
#9
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
Awesome, so that's one problem memory holed.  How many more to go..you reckon...and how can we get everyone to make a similar change in their magic books?  

Seems like we're gonna need alot of highlighters and whiteout.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for a battle to commence then KPLOW, I hit em with the illness of my quill, Im endowed..with certain unalienable skills....  

-ERB


Reply
#10
RE: "who your Oaths give access over" vs "right hand possess"
It's absurd to think you can have sex with a married slave's wife and God would allow that. That's enough Khemikal. You know very well, if you heard nothing but the two verses I talked about from God to humanity and you know it was from God, it should be interpreted this way and not in absurd way that allows sex with wife of another man just because they are both slaves!
"….except those without power/capability - who do not find the means and find no guidance to the way, it maybe God will forgive these, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate." (in 4Th Surah).

Reply



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