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Hanging out at a friends house last night.
#1
Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Was basically my Thanksgiving, everything was great but....

DAMN IT please theist friends, DON'T ASK US to pray with you or bow our heads. Seriously, it is like if you had a Jewish friend and offered them ham or pulled pork. That is your thing not ours.

We are not secretly superstitious thinking something magic will happen if we do. We simply don't buy the claim that prayer works. We still have theist family and friends, but I don't think many understand how annoying it is to us and how uncomfortable it makes many. Now that is not to say other atheists cant fake it if they wish, but many simply do not like the double standard where we are expected to do it all the time when around theists if they do, no matter the occasion.
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#2
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Meh. I don’t get upset about stuff like that — not if i’m a guest.
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#3
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 9:03 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Meh. I don’t get upset about stuff like that — not if i’m a guest.


You, but still, the double standard is there. And not just holiday  meals, but with things like funerals too. If I had held the party at my house, they still would have insisted on praying. 

It is the same with smoking too. Some self entitled smokers, not so many now, but long ago, I noticed that people would still smoke in their cars with the windows up even if the passengers don't smoke, or even with kids in the car. I don't care that I am a guest, there is also something to be said in being a good host. If you know someone is an atheist and you invite them over, be a good friend and don't ask them. We won't stop you from doing it, but don't ask us to do it with you.
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#4
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Being asked to pray over a meal at someone’s house isn’t an order to pray...it’s an invitation to join in.

You can simply be quiet as they observe a custom in their house...their house.

It’s not worth getting worked up over. Pick your battles. If you don’t want to be invited to pray in their home, but know you will be asked, then you placed yourself in that situation.

My house, my rules. Someone else’s house, their rules.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#5
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
I'm curious... did they actually ask you to pray or did they say something like "let's bow our heads" or "let's pray"?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#6
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 9:29 am)tackattack Wrote: I'm curious... did they actually ask you to pray or did they say something like "let's bow our heads" or "let's pray"?

Why should I have to even bow my head? That is still their ritual, not mine. 

If I had had the meal at my house instead, they still would have insisted on praying. I still would have let them, but how hard is it to not insist someone partake in that ritual when you know it is not their thing? No, I don't want to bow my head either. I don't want to hold hands. I wont stop others, just don't ask me to do it.

(November 22, 2018 at 9:29 am)anjele Wrote: Being asked to pray over a meal at someone’s house isn’t an order to pray...it’s an invitation to join in.

You can simply be quiet as they observe a custom in their house...their house.

It’s not worth getting worked up over.  Pick your battles.  If you don’t want to be invited to pray in their home, but know you will be asked,  then you placed yourself in that situation.

My house, my rules.  Someone else’s house, their rules.

No sorry, maybe that is how things go with your family and friends. But that is not how it works all the time with every family and friends.

They are well intended and liberals, but STILL got grabby with me briefly after I objected, trying to grab my hand. Just stop and let me stand there quietly which is ultimately what I did. But if you have known me for years, which they did, then they shouldn't even try to grab my hands, they knew long ago.
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#7
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
99% of the time when a theist saws "let's bow our heads" there asking those that want to pray to bow their heads. It's the easiest way to address a group. I know they don't expect everyone to bow their head or pray. Any theist that has kids and tries to get their kids to "bow their head" doesn't really expect the hungry toddler to care or understand talking to God. The toddler simply doesn't care about what they're doing and wants to eat.

I believe you're feeling cognitive dissonance because of the social pressure to not eat so other people can talk to something you don't believe in. What might help you is separating out whether you're pissed they talk to God, or that you feel obligated not to eat right away. Doesn't sound like you were asked to play and not expected to participate. Does people having an option to pray in school bother you as well? Does seeing someone in a restraint praying for their food bother you too?

Having an option to pray doesn't remove your option not to pray. Asking the room to bow their head doesn't mean you have to. Just care less about what they think and when they go to hold your hand while they pray grab a drumstick instead and nod to them Big Grin As also pointed out, you're the guest and hospitality is a gift and a skill not all have. I don't fix my guests drinks I pint them to the cupboard and fridge. I do try and give them a clean bathroom and variety of drinks and snacks but that's about it.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#8
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 10:01 am)tackattack Wrote: 99% of the time when a theist saws "let's bow our heads" there asking those that want to pray to bow their heads. It's the easiest way to address a group. I know they don't expect everyone to bow their head or pray. Any theist that has kids and tries to get their kids to "bow their head" doesn't really expect the hungry toddler to care or understand talking to God. The toddler simply doesn't care about what they're doing and wants to eat.

I believe you're feeling cognitive dissonance because of the social pressure to not eat so other people can talk to something you don't believe in. What might help you is separating out whether you're pissed they talk to God, or that you feel obligated not to eat right away. Doesn't sound like you were asked to play and not expected to participate. Does people having an option to pray in school bother you as well? Does seeing someone in a restraint praying for their food bother you too?

Having an option to pray doesn't remove your option not to pray. Asking the room to bow their head doesn't mean you have to. Just care less about what they think and when they go to hold your hand while they pray grab a drumstick instead and nod to them Big Grin As also pointed out, you're the guest and hospitality is a gift and a skill not all have. I don't fix my guests drinks I pint them to the cupboard and fridge. I do try and give them a clean bathroom and variety of drinks and snacks but that's about it.

Who is it going to physically hurt if someone doesn't even bow their head or hold hands? Is someone going to get sick, or end up in the ER? NO.

Now go back an read my posts. IF I had held the meal at my house I STILL would NOT stop them from praying, why should it be a big deal to you if I simply stand there in silence without even bowing my head? I am not hurting you or denying you.

I don't give a shit that I am the guest. AGAIN if you think being a good friend works like that. Invite a Jew over and offer them ham, they should eat it according to your bad logic. It is also important to be a good host, not use your majority status as some sort of implied pecking order.


It isn't going to hurt you to even as a host to refrain from asking others who are not into what you are into, to refrain from partaking in it.
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#9
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
There is some vitriol and misrepresentation going on there. I apologize for injecting my opinion, because you obviously just want to vent.
To clarify I actually suggested you completely ignore their requests to bow your head or hold hands and grab a turkey leg instead, for the simple fact they obviously weren't addressing you specifically but the room generally.

As a side note, I've had meals in a shared synagogue with a Messianic group. As long as we didn't prepare the ham in the kitchen, they were fine with that. They even came and ate with us. The only thing we did different is label things with pork, they didn't partake of any and everyone wins. I would never offer a person I knew was Jewish a ham sandwich. If I'm offering ham sandwiches to a group though, I don't expect the Jewish person to burn me as a heretic right on the spot.

I'll bow out now, enjoy your turkey day.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#10
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 10:19 am)tackattack Wrote: There is some vitriol and misrepresentation going on there. I apologize for injecting my opinion, because you obviously just want to vent.
To clarify I actually suggested you completely ignore their requests to bow your head or hold hands and grab a turkey leg instead, for the simple fact they obviously weren't addressing you specifically but the room generally.

As a side note, I've had meals in a shared synagogue with a Messianic group. As long as we didn't prepare the ham in the kitchen, they were fine with that. They even came and ate with us. The only thing we did different is label things with pork, they didn't partake of any and everyone wins. I would never offer a person I knew was Jewish a ham sandwich. If I'm offering ham sandwiches to a group though, I don't expect the Jewish person to burn me as a heretic right on the spot.

I'll bow out now, enjoy your turkey day.

Holy crap. This is what majorities in our species never get when dealing with minorities in their societies.

Venting yes, "vitriol" NO, so please stop.

Saying something is annoying isn't saying I want you arrested, or want your religion banned. It is still annoying.

I am sorry it bothers you that I said, it will not kill you, after someone tells you it is not their thing, to refrain from asking them at all. Letting someone stand there even with their heads up, isn't going to cause anyone's death, nor is it going to prevent you from praying yourself. There is nothing wrong with being a good host.

If I hated them, I wouldn't have gone over there at all. If I hated them I wouldn't have just now thanked them for inviting me. But yea, I "hate" it as in "annoying" not as in "hate" as I want them not to do it at all. Just don't ask me. It isn't that hard to do and it won't kill you.
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