Atheists and Cakes

[The Grand Nudger]

If an "artist" opens up a shop that serves the public, they've created an expectation of service - which puts them under the purview of public accom laws. 

Sure, if you sell pre made baked goods it's those laws but I guess laws change when it comes to making specific orders. I mean if you're a Christian you believe that homosexuality sends you to Hell and you have to write on a cake "Grooms Steve and Mike" then he believes he's "participating in sin" and that makes him uncomfortable and he fears he's going to hell.

Doesn't matter what you make..or whether or not it's premade.  Burgers aren't sitting there waiting for you, either.  Everyone is a sandwich artist.  It's about service, not the product.  An expectation of service is the heart of public accom laws...no matter what the business is or does or who may be running it.  That's why there aren't any "whites only" burger kings......you know....officially.

(there would be, otherwise, believe it)

I mean let's take this example: someone orders from a Muslim baker that he has to write on a cake "Eat Lots Of Bacon". For Muslims eating bacon leads to Hell, so do you think he has a right to object?

Is someone making him eat bacon?  

That's not covered by public accom laws, so it's not an issue. I..personally..find it amusing that folks are convinced that the statements "Gratz Adam and Steve" or "Eat MOAR Bacon" are taken to be offensive to religious sensibilities, lol. All accom laws cover is a situation where the claimant can say "He didn't serve me because of who/what I am". Not - "He wouldn't write what I wanted because of who/what he is!".

I mean I know that you'll say that that baker hates gays, and you're right he is doing it as a discrimination, but the Supreme court doesn't see it from that perspective but from that other "uncomfortable" one. So do you think that from that perspective they're right?

He doesn't hate gays..he's just a useful rube for the lawyers on the payroll of the action committee. It's a multimillion dollar dark money fund that sells itself locally (outside of it;s own locality) as david v goliath on account of nobody having ever heard of them. Even the titles of the cases are deceptively gamed, lol. They shopped for a state, they found it. As a marketing/pr plan..it's fucking brilliant. I'm legitimately envious of them for having come up with the racket.

"Masterpiece Cake Shop vs The Colorado Civil Rights Committee"....el...oh...el.

[Amarok]

If an "artist" opens up a shop that serves the public, they've created an expectation of service - which puts them under the purview of public accom laws. 

Sure, if you sell pre made baked goods it's those laws but I guess laws change when it comes to making specific orders. I mean if you're a Christian you believe that homosexuality sends you to Hell and you have to write on a cake "Grooms Steve and Mike" then he believes he's "participating in sin" and that makes him uncomfortable and he fears he's going to hell.

I mean let's take this example: someone orders from a Muslim baker that he has to write on a cake "Eat Lots Of Bacon". For Muslims eating bacon leads to Hell, so do you think he has a right to object?

I mean I know that you'll say that that baker hates gays, and you're right he is doing it as a discrimination, but the Supreme court doesn't see it from that perspective but from that other "uncomfortable" one. So do you think that from that perspective they're right?

Again that's another bad comparison as it's not comparable too discriminating against a protected class

---

And Max is just spewing Christian apologetics and anti atheist nonsense . Christianity condemned homosexuality as a sin for centuries . I guess they weren't REAL Christians and by the way calling Homosexuality a sin is hatred because it implies there is something wrong with it .

[no one]

[EgoDeath]

I’m fine with businesses denying the sale of goods/services to gay couples, so long as it’s okay for me to deny the sale of goods/services to Christian couples. For some reason though, I think Christians would have a problem with that.

In my opinion, people should, for the most part, be able to run their businesses how they see fit and choose who they do business with as they see fit. However I really doubt the Christian world would be okay with a cake shop/bakery who refused to make a wedding cake for a Christian couple, so we have to ask what double standards are being put into play here.

If you’re cool with someone denying business to Christian patrons, then Christian patrons can deny gay patrons all they want. I don’t think it’s a good business model for you in an increasingly progressive world, but hey, run your business into the ground if you want. No skin off my back.

[downbeatplumb]

Hating gays is absolutely a normal part of Christianity, although not all Christians hate gays, quite a number do directly because of their belief, and it is often sited as a reason why they shouldn't have to serve gays. The cake thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

Calling some ones nutty beliefs nutty is not spreading hate.

If you don't want your beliefs ridiculed get less ridiculous beliefs.

It's absolutely not.  I know a lot of Christians, and can't think of one that ever openly hates on gays.  I have friends and coworkers in the LGBT community and would go to lunch with them and to their parties sometimes.  Never was an issue. Most of the time their relationships never come up in conversation anyway.  They might bring their significant other when we all hang out, but nobody points a finger.  Just talk to them like anybody else.

You are finding what you want to find, even though it's not there.  There are radicals who find excuses to hate people, but that's more about them and not Christianity.

You can ridicule whatever you like.  It's your choice to play make believe in your head and tell everybody what they think.  At the end of the day, you are the one filled with hate, not the people you are fussing about.

Not all Christians are people you know.

Many many are strangers to you and a lot of those use their religion as the reason they hate gays. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...osexuality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of...ted_States

Throughout time the number and statistics of these acts of violence have increased greatly due to the belief of religious and political views

I don't hate Christians just the things they do to oppress others. 


I used to think people could believe any stupid thing they wanted and i'd just let them.


Then 9/11 happened and showed what a properly motivated theist could do. I hadn't paid attention during the Christian purges of muslims in the Balkans but now I am awake and not willing to let people try to force things on others just because they have an imaginary friend.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

It's absolutely not.  I know a lot of Christians, and can't think of one that ever openly hates on gays.  I have friends and coworkers in the LGBT community and would go to lunch with them and to their parties sometimes.  Never was an issue. Most of the time their relationships never come up in conversation anyway.  They might bring their significant other when we all hang out, but nobody points a finger.  Just talk to them like anybody else.

You are finding what you want to find, even though it's not there.  There are radicals who find excuses to hate people, but that's more about them and not Christianity.

You can ridicule whatever you like.  It's your choice to play make believe in your head and tell everybody what they think.  At the end of the day, you are the one filled with hate, not the people you are fussing about.

Not all Christians are people you know.

Many many are strangers to you and a lot of those use their religion as the reason they hate gays. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...osexuality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of...ted_States

Throughout time the number and statistics of these acts of violence have increased greatly due to the belief of religious and political views

I don't hate Christians just the things they do to oppress others. 


I used to think people could believe any stupid thing they wanted and i'd just let them.


Then 9/11 happened and showed what a properly motivated theist could do. I hadn't paid attention during the Christian purges of muslims in the Balkans but now I am awake and not willing to let people try to force things on others just because they have an imaginary friend.

You're picking the ones you want to complain about.  They are few and it's their personal choice.  There are atheists and Muslims who hate gays too.  Should I assume that all do?  Nope.   Love and disagreeing with someone can co-exist. Just like a rebellious child, you love them anyway. 

What do you think Christians do to oppress others?  I mean as a whole?  What are they trying to keep you from?  I'm only going to speak for myself here, but I can't recall ever trying to oppress an atheist.  There are times I make a suggestion to someone, regardless of beliefs, but it is ultimately their choice to decide the course of their life.

[Amarok]

You're picking the ones you want to complain about.  They are few and it's their personal choice.  There are atheists and Muslims who hate gays too.  Should I assume that all do?  Nope.   Love and disagreeing with someone can co-exist. Just like a rebellious child, you love them anyway. 

What do you think Christians do to oppress others?  I mean as a whole?  What are they trying to keep you from?  I'm only going to speak for myself here, but I can't recall ever trying to oppress an atheist.  There are times I make a suggestion to someone, regardless of beliefs, but it is ultimately their choice to decide the course of their life.

And he misses the point once again

[no one]

Amarok:
And he misses the point once again.

It would seem Mr. Silver Hammer is only 5 inches tall.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

You're picking the ones you want to complain about.  They are few and it's their personal choice.  There are atheists and Muslims who hate gays too.  Should I assume that all do?  Nope.   Love and disagreeing with someone can co-exist. Just like a rebellious child, you love them anyway. 

What do you think Christians do to oppress others?  I mean as a whole?  What are they trying to keep you from?  I'm only going to speak for myself here, but I can't recall ever trying to oppress an atheist.  There are times I make a suggestion to someone, regardless of beliefs, but it is ultimately their choice to decide the course of their life.

And he misses the point once again

Nope, you just aren't very good at understanding things.

[no one]

That's rich, Mr. Silver Hammer.