The decline of evangelical Christians.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh. It's becoming popular with many in the gay community to object to the commercialization of the rainbow flag. They feel that the flag has been usurped by Big Business. They have forgotten (or never knew) that we sold that shit to Big Business quite intentionally.

Sort of a pair - if there's more money in assimilation and less interest in exclusion then we're going to find something normalized fairly quick.  I guess the final certification of a true american identity is the willingness to sell it to the highest bidder.

[Drich]

what your witnessing is spiritual growth in the church that is all. even if there isn't a need to hate homosexuals which causes another growth spirt in the church no one is allowing this sin to be taken off the books, just treated like any other sexual sin.

---

You need to read more, Drich, honey:

Archbishop of Canterbury apologises

Shortly after the meeting of the Anglican primates, Archbishop Justin Welby held a press conference in which he apologised "to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people for the hurt and pain they have experienced by the Anglican Communion over the years". Welby said, "it is for me a constant source of deep sadness that people are persecuted for their sexuality … I want to take this opportunity personally to say how sorry I am for the hurt and pain in the past and present that the church has caused."

Wikipedia -- Archbishop of Canterbury apologises to LGBTQ

and you need to read what I specifically said before you go off half cocked 

What did I just say one post ago?!?!?

I said: what your witnessing is spiritual growth in the church that is all. (meaning there is a shift in hating the sinner as we hate sin) even if there isn't a need to hate homosexuals which causes another growth spurt in the church no one is allowing this sin to be taken off the books, just treated like any other sexual sin. Meaning homosexuals are simply being viewed as any other fornicator and adulterers. 

IE:

Just because we do not burn witches at the stake any more doesn't mean witch craft is not a sin. Like wise just because it is not cool to hate homosexuals in the church any more doesn't mean the church says it is ok to drill each other in your cans.. it simply means the church has moved past hatred towards the sinner. As any sin outside the confines of a sanctified marriage is a sin so too is homosexuality.

[The Grand Nudger]

Witchcraft and homosexuality...one of these things is not like the other, lol. Your claim that some church has moved past hatred of the sinner is betrayed for the poiintless lie it is by the continuing denigration of homosexuals and homosexuality, and no amount of convenient apologies will change that.

You can lay this hatred at the foot of your god and insist that it's the Great Himself who hates the homos and that's why it's a sin....but who cares who you blame your bigotries on, honestly?

[Drich]

Witchcraft and homosexuality...one of these things is not like the other, lol.  Your claim that some church has moved past hatred of the sinner is betrayed for the poiintless lie it is by the continuing denigration of homosexuals and homosexuality, and no amount of convenient apologies will change that.  

You can lay this hatred at the foot of your god and insist that it's the Great Himself who hates the homos and that's why it's a sin....but who cares who you blame your bigotries on, honestly?

My deaest bologn (sounds like tone with a B)

can I call you retard for short? You whole f-ing rant about how the church can not buy back forgiveness for hating gay people is the point of the op sport. The Op thinks the church is changing to accept gaygeorty (happy gayness) If you don't like that point take it up with the op dummy. 

All I said is that just because the church no longer prescribes gay beatings (meaning when they stopped handing out little cards with numbers in the upper right hand corner depicting the number of NEW gay people you had to beat up every week) doesn't mean we do not stop seeing homosexuality as a sin.

and no the church never handed out those cards I just wanted to feed hate and self righteous bigorty for a second or two

[Jehanne]

You need to read more, Drich, honey:


Wikipedia -- Archbishop of Canterbury apologises to LGBTQ

and you need to read what I specifically said before you go off half cocked 

What did I just say one post ago?!?!?

I said: what your witnessing is spiritual growth in the church that is all. (meaning there is a shift in hating the sinner as we hate sin) even if there isn't a need to hate homosexuals which causes another growth spurt in the church no one is allowing this sin to be taken off the books, just treated like any other sexual sin. Meaning homosexuals are simply being viewed as any other fornicator and adulterers. 

IE:

Just because we do not burn witches at the stake any more doesn't mean witch craft is not a sin. Like wise just because it is not cool to hate homosexuals in the church any more doesn't mean the church says it is ok to drill each other in your cans.. it simply means the church has moved past hatred towards the sinner. As any sin outside the confines of a sanctified marriage is a sin so too is homosexuality.

Someday, homosexuality will no longer be viewed as being a "sin"; that's my point.

[The Grand Nudger]

Already getting there.

Sex for all Christians that is powerful, even holy.

We need to change how Christians talk about sex, says pastor Bromleigh McCleneghan. Instead of landing on extremes such as “Sex outside marriage is always a sin” or “God is uninterested in your sex life,” McCleneghan explores the Bible in conversation with the wisdom of theologians, ethicists, and psychologists to find a better way for Christians to understand and practice their sexuality in light of their deep faith.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006242...18c3b84ee5

[Drich]

and you need to read what I specifically said before you go off half cocked 

What did I just say one post ago?!?!?

I said: what your witnessing is spiritual growth in the church that is all. (meaning there is a shift in hating the sinner as we hate sin) even if there isn't a need to hate homosexuals which causes another growth spurt in the church no one is allowing this sin to be taken off the books, just treated like any other sexual sin. Meaning homosexuals are simply being viewed as any other fornicator and adulterers. 

IE:

Just because we do not burn witches at the stake any more doesn't mean witch craft is not a sin. Like wise just because it is not cool to hate homosexuals in the church any more doesn't mean the church says it is ok to drill each other in your cans.. it simply means the church has moved past hatred towards the sinner. As any sin outside the confines of a sanctified marriage is a sin so too is homosexuality.

Someday, homosexuality will no longer be viewed as being a "sin"; that's my point.

for people like you it already isn't.

For people in the newest form of church simply don't see it as the unforgivable sin. now it may come common place as a 13 year old boy who   15 times a day, but in Christianity it will always be a sin. as it is ultimately about sex outside of the confines of a sanctified marriage. through the written history found in the bible God has never sanctified a marriage between same sex anything. 

But here's the thing. sin become irrelevant if you are saved. the law is only there to judge those who seek to be moral rather than admit sin and seek atonement.

do you understand what I am saying here and the impact that truly has?

We all sin or have sinned. and just one is enough to condemn us to hell. (be as self righteous no one has only sinned once or twice or just a few hundred times. we all sin maybe a few hundred times a day. hence we need atonement. if we have been atoned sin the law no longer becomes the standard from which our righteousness is determined. meaning our judgement on whether we deserve to go to heaven or not ceases to be about our sin and whether or not Christ has saved us.

However for the rest who think their morality is good enough the law remains as their determining factor on whether they deserve heaven or not. and again even if morally homosexuality is not a sin. it is according to the law as it is by nature a sexual relationship outside of a sanctified marriage which is the only form of marriage that God allows sex.

---

Already getting there.

Sex for all Christians that is powerful, even holy.

We need to change how Christians talk about sex, says pastor Bromleigh McCleneghan. Instead of landing on extremes such as “Sex outside marriage is always a sin” or “God is uninterested in your sex life,” McCleneghan explores the Bible in conversation with the wisdom of theologians, ethicists, and psychologists to find a better way for Christians to understand and practice their sexuality in light of their deep faith.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006242...18c3b84ee5

It is my belief once in a sanctified marriage there are no boundaries so long as both adults want to explore each other that way. even stuff that gae people may be persecuted for maybe permissible for the married couple. the song of Solomon shows a boundless lustful sanctified marriage situation. now compare the lust and carnal ferver between two passionate people to the demand for Chasity found in the catholic church and you can see how a book like this may seem over the top while in truth most of what it says could very well be founded in truth.

when this lady is questioned directly about sanctified marriages she point to how holy they are and she is not trying to change that. but she also 'thinks' sex outside of marriage is ok too. where does she get this? admittedly not from the bible but she takes god and the bible out of the equation and does something like what you all do. and tries to explain the mechanical nature of ownership in a society that is moving away from a nomadic existence where everything is shared to private ownership of lands live stock and women.

This is not a church view this is not even a general religious pov.. she even points out it is not a holy view, but rather she is trying to manipulate sin and redemption process by finding justification apart from God but in general sociology. Here's the thing with that. sociologists have no say in cannon. we do not stand before sociologists and are judged. all she is doing is culling off fringe members of the church who want a god in their own image. a god that will let them live in sin. rather than a god who simply forgives.

She is allowing the proud to keep the pride that will keep them from eternity. truly heart breaking.

[Yonadav]

I think that a lot of people don't realize that the social acceptance verses social condemnation of homosexuality and transgenderism has been sort of a cycle throughout history. It is never static. Homosexuality and transgender issues are simply parts of the sexual spectrum, and all parts of the sexual spectrum are in a constant state of flux because there is constant social bargaining going on throughout the social spectrum.

Right now, we are in a phase where we are being very permissive with homosexuality, gender non-conformity, and female sexuality. But with straight male sexuality we are becoming ultra victorian. Moral standards are being imposed on straight men that are probably not tenable- such as the idea that a scantily clad teenage girl should be able to vamp intoxicated teenage boys who are expected to rigidly behave like perfect gentlemen with her and not do the slightest thing that she might later decide is offensive. A social structure in which everyone can do whatever they want except for straight males is probably not going to be very stable. It is simply where social flux has temporarily taken us, and it is obviously not going to stay that way.

Society always creates some sort of safety valve. There have always been homosexuals, gender non conformists, and various forms of promiscuity. I am pretty sure that we recently went through a period of hysteria over homosexuality and gender non conformity that only took root in the early 20th century. I am pretty certain that the military was sort of the traditional place for young homosexuals to quietly live their homosexual lives in the 19th century, and then we weirdly decided to stamp out homosexuality in the military in the mid 20th century. I mean, a couple of dozen unmarried cavalry men lived in the same bunkhouse together for decades? And that was just like, normal? Uh, huh. I think the mid 20th century was a phase in which our intolerance was an abnormally harsh period in the always changing sexual mores and accommodation of differences.

[Jehanne]

Religion is just a mirror in which humanity views itself.