Thoughts and not prayers.

[The Grand Nudger]

It only gets more amusing when you assume some overarching truth to it all.  I can see how somebody would start to get an inaccurate picture of themselves if they were surrounded by enablers who praised or excused their every terrible act.  At some point you'd have to wonder whether the god, left to it's own devices..would have learned something by now, if not for the sycophants perpetuating the misery.

If there were gods, many of them would have been victimized and taken advantage of by their adherents in this way. So I guess it's a minor blessing that we're only doing this to some figment of the imagination..because otherwise, there wouldn't be any being on earth getting rawdogged harder, and for longer, than a god. Kept in an endless state of infancy in order to further the mundane agenda of it's handlers.

[tackattack]

Getting back to the point. I agree with several posters on here that prayer is a personal thing between you and a personal God and should not be boasted about. It shouldn't go up on twitter, or youtube, as an "aha.. see what we did". It's a conversation with the creator. Let's assume for arguments sake that God doesn't exist and it's just people talking to the air and wishing positive things for people. It still beneficial. There have been studies (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...347528.pdf) that emotionally negative responses like fear and anger narrow the vision on possible solutions while positive emotional reactions do the opposite. As to the other comments in the response. I'm not intentionally ignoring anything. I already stated that prayers are not a substitute for actual practical methods of support and encouragement. It's often though that very little physically can be done in a lot of cases, like the one I cited. Also, I fail to see how it's presumptuous.

I'm not arguing that prayer works. I'm not arguing that there is a God. I agree that a metric shit ton of believers pray so they can get the magical C note and publicly boast about their prayer victories. All I'm saying is that whether God is real or not, someone reaching out to you with "thoughts and prayers", or praying with/for you in a time of need (where other support wouldn't be better) I don't see as a bad thing ever, and I'd like to know why people find it offensive (if they do). Mainly because, I woulnd't want what I see as an act of kindness, to upset or offend people.

[The Grand Nudger]

Getting back to the point. I agree with several posters on here that prayer is a personal thing between you and a personal God and should not be boasted about. It shouldn't go up on twitter, or youtube, as an "aha.. see what we did". It's a conversation with the creator. Let's assume for arguments sake that God doesn't exist and it's just people talking to the air and wishing positive things for people. It still beneficial. There have been studies (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...347528.pdf) that emotionally negative responses like fear and anger narrow the vision on possible solutions while positive emotional reactions do the opposite. As to the other comments in the response. I'm not intentionally ignoring anything. I already stated that prayers are not a substitute for actual practical methods of support and encouragement. It's often though that very little physically can be done in a lot of cases, like the one I cited. Also, I fail to see how it's presumptuous.

Beneficial to the person praying..you mean.  Gee, glad that person feels better...now, what do we do about the guy who lost his house in a flood?   You see it doesn't help to claim that "there have been studies" for things not even remotely in question. That thoughts and prayers-ing is self satisfactory is self evident.

I'm not arguing that prayer works. I'm not arguing that there is a God. I agree that a metric shit ton of believers pray so they can get the magical C note and publicly boast about their prayer victories. All I'm saying is that whether God is real or not, someone reaching out to you with "thoughts and prayers", or praying with/for you in a time of need (where other support wouldn't be better) I don't see as a bad thing ever, and I'd like to know why people find it offensive (if they do). Mainly because, I woulnd't want what I see as an act of kindness, to upset or offend people.

How much time you got buddy? 

For example, you failed to see what might be presumptuous and insulting about praying to the lord of creation -or- considering the intended recipient lost in the event of some tragedy.

All I can say to you, is to stop praying and accept that this tragedy is just how your god works, and nothing to do with whether a person is lost, nor is tragedy the moment to go recruiting.

Feeding on emotional carrion isn't a great look, and, as you explained it, it's not the same as actually helping or empathizing. You know what's interesting? People have found this insulting about christianity for as long as there has been christianity...and yet..still..2k years later, some christians can't understand why. At some point you'd think that the brute fact of it's being insulting would trump their inability to see why..though, if you racked your brains..I;m sure you could come up with some explanations for why others may be insulted by some prayer of your own devising, to your own god, for your own purposes.

---

*I'm sure of this, btw, because I can link christians and jews and greek polytheists and atheists alike all commenting on it.

Roman emperors lamented centuries ago that the christians preyed on the weak and impoverished and imperilled in precisely this way (which, they did..for better and for worse). 

Rabbis tell us today that god does not want our thoughts and prayers, that god wants our action.  

When you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
    I am not listening.

Your hands are full of blood!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV


Christians hope to god that no one sends thoughts or prayers.

My son was in Las Vegas with a lot of his friends and he came home. He didn't come home last night, and I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts. I want gun control, and I hope to God nobody sends me anymore prayers. I want gun control. No more guns.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/i-hop...oting.html

-and this is hardly a novel position for a christian to take. "Jesus" himself had this to say on the matter of people and their pious theater.

Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tackattack, try this: Replace "god" with "Uga Bugga, Great God of the Congo"* and see how open-minded the people around you are.

[Angrboda]

Praying for someone isn’t about convincing a puppet master to pull some strings or make a c note magically appear in your wallet. It is a Christians way of guiding someone lost into a relationship with our God.

So in other words, praying and offering someone your prayers is all about taking advantage of the fact that someone is suffering and under stress to attempt to convert them? Thanks for clearing that up for me, tack. Way to go, Christians!

"Here. I can't actually do anything for you, but let me take advantage of your vulnerability for my own benefit."

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Praying for someone isn’t about convincing a puppet master to pull some strings or make a c note magically appear in your wallet. It is a Christians way of guiding someone lost into a relationship with our God.

So in other words, praying and offering someone your prayers is all about taking advantage of the fact that someone is suffering and under stress to attempt to convert them?  Thanks for clearing that up for me, tack.  Way to go, Christians!

"Here.  I can't actually do anything for you, but let me take advantage of your vulnerability for my own benefit."

Reminds me of the story about all the missionaries up in Heaven, bragging about how many souls they'd saved. It got down to a quiet little guy sitting in the back.

"And how many souls did you save?"

"One," he replied with a smile.

[tackattack]

Gae, I already clearly stated that it doesn't excuse inaction, which you seem to be hung up on. I think a lot of the "thoughts and prayers" are just an instinctive reaction to show the same empathy and sympathy that is being derided, and that many Christians are cited for not having by members of this forum.

As to your feeding on emotional carrion comments, no reaching out in sympathy/empathy is good for the believe and the object of the prayer. Thoughts and prayers-ing IS self satisfactory, which IS self evident, and a method of reaching out thus IS NOT necessarily self-serving. I'm not saying Christians can't be self-seving at times, but I clearly cited research for bringing positivity to a situation and an instance of corporate prayer helping an individual more than the secular alternative would have done.

Gawdzilla, If someone wanted to say a Hindi prayer, a catholic prayer, a wiccan spell or massage my chakras; I would be just as grateful they cared enough to empathize even if I don't believe in their methods. All I'm trying to see is why the same isn't true for atheists.

---

Praying for someone isn’t about convincing a puppet master to pull some strings or make a c note magically appear in your wallet. It is a Christians way of guiding someone lost into a relationship with our God.

So in other words, praying and offering someone your prayers is all about taking advantage of the fact that someone is suffering and under stress to attempt to convert them?  Thanks for clearing that up for me, tack.  Way to go, Christians!

"Here.  I can't actually do anything for you, but let me take advantage of your vulnerability for my own benefit."

Here, I can do something for you that you may not see or believe, I have this guy I know called God and He loves you. If you needed a place to stay and some food, I can help. You might need some medical assistance I can't really provide, but if I can take a moment of your time, I'd like to show you that God loves you and so do I and hear about your situation.

It's not taking advantage, it's being open and empathetic and trying to help someone. If you're a believer and so down you can't see God, it'll help. If you're a non-believer and you just want to share, it'll help, If you're not a believer and hate Christians/Religion I can see where it would be fuel to the fire of your hate and not productive, but how is a bystander to know where you lay philosophically?

A simple, I'm praying for you, retorted with please don't pray I find it condescending/grandizing/self-seeking, would be sufficient. If that's all that people are saying then I'm cool with that. That's why on this forum where we have profiles and rules, I have no problem not saying it "out loud".

[The Grand Nudger]

If that's all that people are saying then I'm cool with that. 

That's exactly what people are saying. By "people", we are referring to the religious, non religious, and irreligious alike. Theres no shortage of explanations from every corner for why a specific person finds thought's and prayersing to be insulting, unintentionally offensive, or just downright evil.

This viewpoint has been around for as long as thoughts and prayersing has been around, and can be found in old and new magic book.

[tackattack]

OK so prayers help the gift and the giver.. glad I was getting that general point correct. Why do YOU consider praying to be insulting, unintentionally offensive, or just downright evil. Also to the OP, and anyone else that find praying insulting, unintentionally offensive, or just downright evil.

No need to reply if you feel:
a. I could have used some help and they actually didn't help me, they just prayed.
b. They were only praying to pat each other on the back.

[Anomalocaris]

Because you should not claim the approbation for having done a good deed when you didn’t.