Trinity?

[downbeatplumb]

[DeistPaladin]

You need to study the scriptures not just read them if you want to have a understanding of them.

Dude, I've been citing chapter and verse in the Bible. So do you have any comments on any of these passages I've offered, aside from "nuh-uh"?

[Minimalist]

There are now registered Jedi in the world because someone watched Star Wars enough times to see the wisdom.

May the Farce be With You!

[DeistPaladin]

Yep I believe that enough people filled in jedi as their religion in the last census that it was made an official religion.

What is the official theology regarding whether or not the three prequel crap fest is canonical? Or is this a matter of sectarian division?

[Godscreated]

[quote="Godschild"]
You are accepting the way the Jewish leaders of Jesus day thought. These men did not want a Messiah period, that would have removed all their power, so these power hungry men denounced Christ...

Are you basing your opinions on your imagination or actual history? Jewish leaders hungered for a messiah who would deliver them from Roman occupation. There were many such messiah candidates, perhaps the most famous of whom was John the Baptist (and please don't claim that he denied messiahship in the Bible as actual history shows us that he had a following that persisted for centuries). A candidate who could perform repeated magic powers would have been welcomed

No, my statement is based on the OT prophecies. They wanted a Messiah that would deliver them from the hands of Rome, Gods plan was of a greater magnitude than this, He wanted man kind to be delivered from a world of sin. John may very well had a following for a time after Jesus but that does not make him a Messiah and he did denounce the idea of himself as the Messiah. John's teachings were forgiveness of sin not a battle to rid the Jews of Rome. John taught only humility and forgiveness and he was put to death for what he believed. Jesus was not doing miracles in the way the Jewish preist thought was proper for a Messiah, this is why they rejected Him, God had always said that the Jews wanted Him to meet their desires in their way and not His.

The messiah, as Padriac pointed out, was not supposed to be a lamb of God or God-incarnate but a mortal warlord. Jesus' claims, if he existed and he had made them, would have been blasphemous:

Deuteronomy
13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

The above verses have only to do with prophets not the Messiah, please use the verses as the are meant to be. Padriac has no idea what he's talking about. Read the prophecies about the Messiah in the OT. Even His death is discribed in the book of Psalm. Jesus was mortal wasn't He, the Jewish preist took His life. How is it that God can blasphem Himself that makes no sense at all.

YHWH is the trinity, the Father is one person, Jesus is one person and the Holy Spirit is one person, all equal, all one God (YHWY), each with different responsibilities but all of the same mind.

Christianity is the only religion that tries to be monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time.

The christian faith only claims one God period.

The reason you believe the Jews say there is no intercessor,

...is because it's in the actual scriptures.
Isaiah
43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
No savior who "sits at the right hand" of God.

You have misunderstood the verse DP, when the word LORD appears in all caps the reference is to YHWH the unspeakable name of God according to the Jewish people. As I stated before YHWH is the Trinity, the verse is truthful and because the verse says YHWH that includes Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

the high priest was the intercessor between YHWH and the people,

The high priest has no claims of divinity nor is he worshiped nor does he have the power to forgive sins. This is a failed equivocation.

You are correct in the underlined part of your statment but not in the last sentence. The high preist was the intercessor between the people and YHWH, they stood in the Holy of Holies and offered the sacrifice to YHWH, for the people, in forgiveness of their sins. No they were not an intercessor like Christ they were the fore shadowing of Christ.

Also Jesus was not abandoned by the Father and He was not abandoned by YHWH, that would mean He, the Father and Holy Spirit would of abandoned Him and He never left Himself behind nor did He turn His back on Himself.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

This does not mean the Father abandoned the Son, He raised Him from death on the third day. This verse means, as the sins of the entire world past, present and future were poured upon Christ the Father could not look upon Him or relieve His suffering from that great burden.

[thesummerqueen]

What is the official theology regarding whether or not the three prequel crap fest is canonical? Or is this a matter of sectarian division?

I believe it could be called something near a Schism.

[DeistPaladin]

my statement is based on the OT prophecies.

Chapter and verse please?

John may very well had a following for a time after Jesus but that does not make him a Messiah and he did denounce the idea of himself as the Messiah.

So how come his followers kept following him, then? If he pointed to Jesus, why didn't his followers do as he said and follow Jesus? Or does it make more sense to conclude that the Gospel accounts are Christian propaganda to portray the Mandean messiah as bowing before the Christian one?

As Judge Judy once said, "Your story doesn't make sense and when something doesn't make sense, it's probably a lie."

John ...was put to death for what he believed.

According to both your Bible and actual historical records, JtB was put to death for speaking out against Herod Antipas.

Luke 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done, Added yet this above all, that he shut up John in prison.

Jesus was not doing miracles in the way the Jewish preist thought was proper for a Messiah, this is why they rejected Him,

Again, your story doesn't make sense. According to the Bible, the Jews hated Jesus with such intensity that they conspired on Passover Eve. According to the Bible, Jesus performed great magic. And yet, these same Jewish priests had not one word to write about him for centuries? Not a word about how their chief prosecutor Saul one day went rogue and joined their ranks? They witnessed miracle after miracle and said, "meh"?

The above verses (Deuteronomy 13) have only to do with prophets not the Messiah

According to the Gospels, the Jews certainly didn't think so and, by OT, they did what they were supposed to, as commanded by the OT.

The christian faith only claims one God period.

But you said they were three separate persons. Yet one god. Yet three separate beings. Yet combined into one. Yet you pray to Jesus to be the bridge to God. Yet he IS God. Yet he's separate as a being. Yet...

YHWH the unspeakable name of God according to the Jewish people.

Zeus, Odin and Ra are much cooler names.

Just say them in that order: ZEUS! ODIN! RA! ...yahweh.

Poor god probably got beat up all the time as a kid in god school and had all his ambrosia money stolen. It conjures an image of little Yahweh hanging by his underwear from a flagpole while the bigger god kids are laughing at him.

Blinking back tears, he shakes his fist and says, "You bullies will be sorry. One day, I'm going to be the most powerful god on the planet. In fact, I'll be the only one left. People won't know me by my squeeky name but will just call me 'GOD'. I'll persecute all your pitiful religions out of existence. You'll see!"

This trauma gave little Yahweh the determination to succeed and build his religious empire. It also gave him that nasty temper. This is why he needs every mortal to sing his praises and validate him. He's so insecure despite all his power that he's accumulated. Deep down, behind his cruel, temperamental, bloodthirsty exterior, he's still that wounded little godling that just needs a hug and a chance to heal. It's a tragic and touching story ...except for all that mahem and bloodshed done under his orders.

This does not mean the Father abandoned the Son, He raised Him from death on the third day. This verse means, as the sins of the entire world past, present and future were poured upon Christ the Father could not look upon Him or relieve His suffering from that great burden.

So Jesus, being part of the same god, wasn't aware of what the other part of the same god was up to and thought that the father part of himself had abandoned his part?

Is this an example of left hand not knowing what right hand is up to?

[thesummerqueen]

Zeus, Odin and Ra are much cooler names.

Just say them in that order: ZEUS! ODIN! RA! ...yahweh.

Also, none of those other names require drawing up phlegm to be able to say them properly. That's a huge plus in their favor.

---

Is this an example of left hand not knowing what right hand is up to?

Also - isn't some form of this called "The Stranger"?

[Ashendant]

My personal interpretation was that Jesus was the corporal manifestation of god, the Holy Spirit the spiritual, and the Father the divine

What's the difference between spiritual and divine?

Spirit is associated with the mind of man, the holy ghost speaks to the mind of people and enlightens it, the divine is associated with... well divinity, it stays in the heavens and is the one that has the power to change everything, or could also be Jesus the Omnipresent, Holy ghost the Omniscient, and the father the Omnipotent

[Edwardo Piet]

You need to study the scriptures not just read them if you want to have a understanding of them.

How can theology be a valid subject without first assuming God's existence?