The Dunning-Kruger Effect and Religious Belief

[bennyboy]

I think we can all see this effect in each other, probably about a lot of things. But can we, as a species, consider that our entire world view depends on this effect?

It seems to me that given infinity around us, and the squirreliness of QM, and the complete mystery around almost any philosophical question that matters-- we might be a lot less aware than we think we are. And yet we are confident that we've achieved a great deal, that we're on the right path, and that there's some purpose in getting out of bed in the morning.

In the defense of religion-- if we don't and can't know the truth™, isn't a system of mythological memes that gets people out of bed in the morning, or brings them together under a roof once a week, that much worse than any of the other very inaccurate or incomplete ideas that dominate our world views?

[tackattack]

If people are ignorant of something. I don’t think it really helps to point out ignorance. I’ve spent a life trying to help other people with their problems, just to come to the realization that you can’t change anyone. It just doesn’t work or improve a situation to state their deficiencies. What does seem to gel is inspiring a thirst for change in someone else, so they can meet you at the point they are willing to listen. </2 cents>

[fredd bear]

If people are ignorant of something. I don’t think it really helps to point out ignorance.  I’ve spent a life trying to help other people with their problems, just to come to the realization that you can’t change anyone. It just doesn’t work or improve a situation to state their deficiencies. What does seem to gel is inspiring a thirst for change in someone else, so they can meet you at the point they are willing to listen. </2 cents>

That's a hard lesson to learn. You may have learned it far younger than I .  took me a very long time to realise other people have no obligation to live up to my expectations.

Sometimes hard to realise whose needs one is trying to meet; one's own, or anothers.

I worked as a Lifeline telephone counsellor for 2 years (voluntary ,they train you) Lifeline here is a non directive service run by thee Uniting Church; the emphasis is always on what the client wants.

It came s a shock to realise that most callers, no matter what their issue, had no serious intention of changing. People will choose comfortable misery rather than face change which frightens them..

There was one exception: suicide callers. When a person admitted to have taken what they believe was a drug overdose. The approach was to find out were and get an ambulance to them, staying on the line until the paramedics arrived. I only had to do that once. I found it a shattering experience, once it was over, I collapsed in a pile of tears. A common reaction, I discovered later.,

[The Grand Nudger]

My ex wife was a lifeline operator...oddly enough, she couldn;t talk herself out of committing interpersonal suicide.  Zing!

On a more serious note..seriously, I've sometimes wondered whether anti-suicide campaigns would be more successful if..instead of focusing on how people have reasons to live..they constantly drilled down on how likely a suicide attempt was to fail, and the aftermath of that failure. Offer to call in a pro before they hurt themselves..and live.

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In the defense of religion-- if we don't and can't know the truth™, isn't a system of mythological memes that gets people out of bed in the morning, or brings them together under a roof once a week, that much worse than any of the other very inaccurate or incomplete ideas that dominate our world views?

Yes....because of what they do when they get out of bed compelled by the same. The world would be much better off if they had decided to sleep in. Religious belief isn't just another idea amongst ideas. It's malignant as all get out.

[Fireball]

My ex wife was a lifeline operator...oddly enough, she couldn;t talk herself out of committing interpersonal suicide.  Zing!

On a more serious note..seriously, I've sometimes wondered whether anti-suicide campaigns would be more successful if..instead of focusing on how people have reasons to live..they constantly drilled down on how likely a suicide attempt was to fail, and the aftermath of that failure.  Offer to call in a pro before they hurt themselves..and live.

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In the defense of religion-- if we don't and can't know the truth™, isn't a system of mythological memes that gets people out of bed in the morning, or brings them together under a roof once a week, that much worse than any of the other very inaccurate or incomplete ideas that dominate our world views?

Yes....because of what they do when they get out of bed compelled by the same.  The world would be much better off if they had decided to sleep in.  Religious belief isn't just another idea amongst ideas.  It's malignant as all get out.

I've known people who failed to make a "successful" suicide attempt. There were some pretty ghastly results, mostly as a result of firearms. One guy I thought was a harelip, until I found out that he'd merely pointed the gun too far out of his mouth. He finally managed to gas himself in his old Ford van using a hose to duct the exhaust back into the vehicle.   I don't know what went on in his youth, or whatever, but as bad a time as I've ever had in my life, I never got that far.

[The Grand Nudger]

I tried to off myself, once, but the round was a dud so I decided to go to a bar across the street and drink, instead.  That's how I met The Wife.  I'll never forget the ritual.  I showered, I shaved...I cleaned my apartment meticulously...then I put on my dress greens and stuck a rifle in my mouth.  A few hours later I fell down in a plastic lawn chair because I couldn't stand up and it was someone else's table..I looked across and said "Hey Red, what's your name" - because I couldn't see any better than I could stand and she was wearing a fire engine powersuit (with shoulder pads, lol).

So...you know, many kids later, but I could've blown my face off like a nub.  Glad it went the other way....I'm a handsome man.

(am too!)

[bennyboy]

I'm kind of a WIP in that regard. Getting a little obsessed with it-- philosophy, you know, makes it hard to take things seriously one day, and makes everything thuper-therious the next.

[The Grand Nudger]

Feel you there.  The only things I take seriously are those things that fuck with us in the context of life-as-practical joke.

[downbeatplumb]

My ex wife was a lifeline operator...oddly enough, she couldn;t talk herself out of committing interpersonal suicide.  Zing!

On a more serious note..seriously, I've sometimes wondered whether anti-suicide campaigns would be more successful if..instead of focusing on how people have reasons to live..they constantly drilled down on how likely a suicide attempt was to fail, and the aftermath of that failure.  Offer to call in a pro before they hurt themselves..and live.

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I know what you mean you have all the same problems AND broken legs, a failing liver or brain damage.