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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 10:31 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2019 at 10:32 pm by GrandizerII.)
(February 19, 2019 at 10:26 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: (February 19, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Or it could've always been, and with full storage of all information that could be known by such an entity. In this sense it can be a supreme intelligence without having to evolve.
There are ways to imagine a seemingly possible god without having to accept Dawkins' thinking.
Provide evidence for such a god then. Hell, define the god first, then provide evidence. If you can't, then thanks for your time.
It wasn't about evidence. Why shifting goalposts?
(February 19, 2019 at 10:29 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: And why should we take anything philosophers have to say seriously, when it comes to science?
How else did science come about?
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 10:36 pm
No shifting goal posts. What are you talking about? Provide evidence for such a god. What you can "imagine" has nothing to do with anything. Provide evidence of something that exists outside of nature.
And I don't know, how did science come about? You seem to know. Why don't you tell me?
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 10:46 pm
(This post was last modified: February 19, 2019 at 10:47 pm by GrandizerII.)
(February 19, 2019 at 10:36 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: No shifting goal posts. What are you talking about? Provide evidence for such a god. What you can "imagine" has nothing to do with anything. Provide evidence of something that exists outside of nature.
But I wasn't trying to make the statement that there's evidence for any god. All I was doing was disagreeing with Dawkins thinking. If there is a god, and it's a big if, it need not be the product of evolution.
Quote:And I don't know, how did science come about? You seem to know. Why don't you tell me?
Science, as we know it today manifested in such fields as physics chemistry biology psychology and so on, all started out philosophically. The whole idea of the scientific method stems from various philosophical doctrines, falsification being a notable one. And there is the philosophy of science which attempts to answer the meta questions of science such as whether science is the best means of knowledge or not.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 10:49 pm
And yet, the fact that you can imagine a certain god means nothing. Nothing has been demonstrated to exist outside of nature. Period.
And yes, science came from philosophy, in many ways. But now, we have the scientific method and various fields of science that are well-developed and intricate... there are no longer any meaningful questions philosophy can answer that science cannot. Not all questions or modes of contemplation are useful or even relevant.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:01 pm
(February 19, 2019 at 10:49 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: And yet, the fact that you can imagine a certain god means nothing. Nothing has been demonstrated to exist outside of nature. Period.
I didn't say outside of nature anywhere in my responses.
Quote:And yes, science came from philosophy, in many ways. But now, we have the scientific method and various fields of science that are well-developed and intricate... there are no longer any meaningful questions philosophy can answer that science cannot. Not all questions or modes of contemplation are useful or even relevant.
Uh, no.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:02 pm
Okay, then what's your point? That we imagine a god outside of nature? um... alright?
And huh?
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:04 pm
(February 19, 2019 at 11:02 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: Okay, then what's your point? That we imagine a god outside of nature? um... alright?
And huh?
No I'm speculating within the confines of nature.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:07 pm
Okay, but it doesn't really make sense... I can "imagine" a god that exists within nature... so... what's your point exactly? And you still haven't posited which questions exist that philosophy has the best answers for.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:10 pm
(February 19, 2019 at 11:07 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: Okay, but it doesn't really make sense... I can "imagine" a god that exists within nature... so... what's your point exactly? And you still haven't posited which questions exist that philosophy has the best answers for.
My point was to provide a counter.
And I already provided one question that philosophy can attempt to answer. You can't argue that science is the best method tonattain knowledge about the world without using philosophy.
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RE: Nature comes first
February 19, 2019 at 11:25 pm
Which question is that? And why can't I argue that point? What?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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