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No reason justifies disbelief.
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 (March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 5:58 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: All gods were created by Man. Without Man, no god would exist. I see. You're saying that "I'm too ignorant, witless or lacking imagination to see how that could be the case, therefore, it isn't" I accept the justification but not the conclusion, because it's not really much of an argument.  (March 27, 2019 at 7:27 pm)fredd bear Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote: It's implausible man created the god that created man. You can still get drunk tonight. 
 (March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 5:58 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: All gods were created by Man. Without Man, no god would exist. Things that don't exist, do not cause other things. Demonstrate a god exists. Demonstrate it is a god that created man. Demonstrate it is the specific version of the specific god you believe exists, as opposed to all the other creator gods that you don't believe exist. You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
I guess it's just some sort of miracle that we managed to crank out an endless parade of gods..what with it being so implausible and all.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 5:58 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: All gods were created by Man. Without Man, no god would exist. And thus, any god that created man mythology must be by definition, true. Right? Because man could have not made up such a story? Right?  (March 27, 2019 at 8:49 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: I guess it's just some sort of miracle that we managed to crank out an endless parade of gods..what with it being so implausible and all. “Man cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen.” (Michel de Montaigne) 
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
 (March 27, 2019 at 8:49 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: I guess it's just some sort of miracle that we managed to crank out an endless parade of gods..what with it being so implausible and all. I've mentioned elsewhere that the Romans made up a god to watch over their household. Blatantly created Him out of whole cloth. That pretty much sums up religion.  (March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote: It's implausible man created the god that created man. On the other hand, it's eminently reasonable to believe that man created gods that, being imaginary, are incapable of creating anything at all. I have never seen any evidence sufficient to convince me that any god was real, and hold the position that they are all figments of the human imagination until otherwise demonstrated. Arguably they have value for some people in that the idea of a specific god can be inspiring, but IMO gods have only the power that the human imagination bestows upon them. RE: No reason justifies disbelief.
March 30, 2019 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: March 30, 2019 at 6:58 pm by fredd bear.)
(March 30, 2019 at 1:37 am)Astreja Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 7:14 pm)Catharsis Wrote: It's implausible man created the god that created man. There's two scenes in the 1960 version of Spartacus with Sepronius Gracchus and a young Julius Caesar (this 70 bce, Third Servile War) ---Caesar says " with such a sum I could bribe Jupiter himself" Gracchus replies, chuckling " For a much lesser sum I have" Gracchus has just made an irreverent remark about the gods. Caesar is shocked. Gracchus " Now don't you be so stiff necked. Privately I believe in none of the gods, neither do you. Publicly I believe in them all" I mention the above scenes because I think they probably reflect the attitude of many of the Roman upper classes at that time.. Not sure who wrote this , possibly Epicurus (?) Something like "To the ordinary people, the gods are true. To he wise man, nonsense. To the ruler, useful" Is it still true that it is difficult for an openly atheist or gay person to be elected to say a State government position? I ask because in Oz, traditionally, members of the Labor party haven been atheist. Currently, we also have a couple of openly gay members of parliament. One, Penny Wong, is a Minister (like a US secretary). She has a gay marriage and they have a child. I wonder how long it will be before gays are welcome in all Christian churches and in Islam? |
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