[Serious] Good vs Evil

[Brian37]

Hallelujah  ... finally  .... now will you burn that bronze age goatherders book you keep pushing?

that is why you fail...

You assume all forms of right and wrong must change. there their can't be a set standard.

There is, however none of us where meant to uphold it. Rather we are to seek atonement rather than follow the point of 'morality.'

They always have D.

There was a time slavery was acceptable, and women couldn't vote. I am damned glad those oppressive twisted bigoted senses of morality have changed.

It is sad to me that you cling to the claims of antiquity, instead of seeing that our improvement as a species has been because social norms have been questioned. 

And please skip your religious lingo "atonement".

You don't need an old book of mythology, or a word rooted in mythology to say, "I made a mistake" to ask others to give you a second chance. 

Humans were around long before any written religion, and we were helping each other and fighting each other, being both cruel and compassionate to each other long before any written religion or nation. 

HUMANS are all we have, and you don't need old mythology to know that our species is capable of both cruelty and compassion. It is still up to our species how we interact with each other.

[Chad32]

I heard somewhere that good is what brings happiness to the most people, and evil is what does not. I've also heard that Yahweh does bad things for supposedly good reasons, and Satan does good things for supposedly bad reasons. So it's not really the most clear cut concept.

[Drich]

"Good" is anything in the expressed will of God/His law being his will expressed.

"Evil" is willfully being outside or in rebellion against the will of God.

Theft is against God's law.  Is stealing medicine to save a dying child an evil act?

Boru

Sin is anything not in the expressed will of God/Anything not permissable by the written/express law of God.

Evil is a desire or an action that allows one to dwell in thought or act of sin or indulge in sin. (evil in this day gives one permission to sin.)

Not all sin is evil but all evil is sin. Sin can be forgiven evil will not.

So to steal medicine is a sin, it can be considered evil if you steal it for the purpose of sinning. however if you stole it because you are in need with no means to pay it is a simple sin. 

Now keep in mind sin is only sin without christ. sin is only a 'mark against you' if you are trying to live by the law. which again is pointless if you have only ever sinned even once. live by the law means to live a perfect sin less life/ moral life. God does not judge morality despite what some religions say. 

Sin's only stated purpose/the reason for the law remaining is to identify sin. once you see that you sin, nothing else can be done beside seeking atonement. so the purpose of sin is to push you towards seeking atonement as a means to righteousness rather than trying to earn righteousness by being 'moral.'

When you are in the grace of God you are no longer judged by sin. it is no longer used to "keep track" of the kind of person you are.

The new measure becomes love. Love for God before all things and love for your neighbor as yourself... These two laws replace rather full fills the whole law. Meaning if you keep these two laws as a believer then you will be counted as one of the redeemed. As this love that has you keep these two laws makes you a canidate for the love of God which includes redemption.  all other laws for the believer are moot.

However, before you know christ you are judged not onl by the 10 commandments but by every stroke of the pen, not one part of the law changes. However after "it was finished" (jesus' last words on the cross) you become judge whether or not you accepted the atonement offer and are in a state of grace. Not by your actions. but by your love for God and fellow man/The greatest commands.

Meaning if you stole medicine, the question would be did you do it because you love stealing, did you do it to make money? or did you do it because your love for another would see you in trouble before harm came to the other person?

The question of why is what is judged, for me as a believer...

For you as a non believer the question is did he steal, answer yes (for you the law remains and not one aspect of it changes) then he is in sin and as such with no grace or atonement offered is punished by a second death/hell

So yes and no to answer your question. for me it is a sin but sin has no hold on me as one in christ but to a non believer yes it is a sin and that sin will see you to hell despite your intentions.

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I’m so glad you decided to grace my thread with your desires to murder children. I don’t actually believe in evil but if I did, (and if I believed held the things you say were actually real and not just trolling) you’d be on the list.

So You blindly believe all children are innocent?





tell me if you where in chris kyle's spot and those troops on the ground where you friends and family you would not shoot this child? He did and his mother why? because they where evil and trying to kill his people.

You idealism of all children being innocent has never been more than a hallmark christmas card sentiment. kids are nothing more carrier of potentially toxic idealism and fanaticism. which we will learn as a nation one days as our troops already well know. Which was the purpose of that psalm. again not only did the jews want the people who where enslaving them dead they want their children dead because they knew the children where also indoctrinated to hate, that this hate permeated generations and does not just pop in once someone hits 18.

yes i wa trolling about universal and the evil children there. but i thought it was so obvious it would not be disputed. but at the same time I was making a point that evil children are indeed apart of this world and they like their fathers do need to die if we are to ever see an end to fanatical terrorism.

[Losty]

Yes, I absolutely believe all children are innocent.

[tackattack]

If I had to define good and evil in terms of good people or bad people I'd say
good = a degree of empathy that spurs selflessness
evil = a degree of selfishness that comes from a lack of empathy

and if you want me to factor in my religious perspective, since this thread is in that forum:

natural evil= The axiomatic degree to which people act against God's will
natural good= The axiomatic characteristic of God's empathetic and compassionate nature towards positive outcomes for the most people

moral good = the ethical correctness of God's revealed will
moral evil = sin (going against God's will)

[Drich]

They always have D.

do you really want to go there "b"?

There was a time slavery was acceptable,

it still is brah, the only thing changed is the name and how dark the skin tone is. now instead of chattel slave they are called migrent workers, sussudized factory or quota workers. peice workers or co-op farmers in some countries. in truth you could not afford to live a "mordern life style" without all the people currently living in slave wage conditions. Nothing has changed only the names so you can feel selfrighteous about how progressive your 'morality' is over that of your grandfathers.

and women couldn't vote.

and they still can't in the majority of the world. just because two out of seven continate nations women can vote does not mean this is a true reflectin of the world at large. you are judgeing the top 10 or 15% of the world and proclaiming a false victory. when in fact nothing has changed not really on a global scale. just names have changed and the evil is push out of the lime light.

is that 'good enough' for a "moral man" such as yourself? that you would allow the wool be pulled over your eyes because in your little corner of the world things are 'moral' as far as you can see? (end of the street you live on?)

I am damned glad those oppressive twisted bigoted senses of morality have changed.

again fundementally in practice nothing has changed just the words labeling slavery and equal rights. again just an illusion for the self righteous.

It is sad to me that you cling to the claims of antiquity, instead of seeing that our improvement as a species has been because social norms have been questioned. 

Again I cling to a non morality based ecconomy of atonement and grace. while you pretend to being a better person by renaming slaves and giving 7% of the population the right to vote makes you a saint.. at least your grandfather knew what kind of man he was and did not have to lie to himself or other people about what is right and wrong. You pretend to be better than that generation but in practice clearly you have been found wanting.

And please skip your religious lingo "atonement".

Because you clearly do not understand what it means??? Why because it ruins the sterotype of me a christian having to follow rules and laws to be holy? look "B" the only person judging himself by following rule set "A" rather than rule set "B" is you dummy!

Atonement means I am not judge by any rules. i am judge by my want and ability to love.

You don't need an old book of mythology, or a word rooted in mythology to say, "I made a mistake" to ask others to give you a second chance. 

Again retard atonement is not a second chance, it is removing a rule set as my measure of what kind of person I am all together! It means I am judge on my ablity to love God and my fellow man, not because I can or can not follow some moral code... That is your dark age medieval mindset regaurding 'morality.' Not mine.

Humans were around long before any written religion, and we were helping each other and fighting each other, being both cruel and compassionate to each other long before any written religion or nation. 

bananas where around before banana pudding, so what? It doesn't mean they tasted better. and shame on you for attacking a 'bronze age system of belief' when you cite a pre historic pre stone age system of belief. what a douche!

HUMANS are all we have, and you don't need old mythology to know that our species is capable of both cruelty and compassion. It is still up to our species how we interact with each other.

Again dummy Christianity is not a religion of rules. it is freedom from rules. what a simpleton! why can't you get pat your dark age church mental block? don't you understand what the reformation was all about? it was to dispell everything you think the church is about!!! Which is also a point to show/evidence as to how I know you all do not read the bible.

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Yes, I absolutely believe all children are innocent.

So that kid who was about to blow up the squad of soldier was "good"?

remember this was a true story.

the clip is taken from the first few pages of Chris kyles auto bio and turned into a movie.

I read the book and the movie does not show it but that kid is not the only one he took out. there where several very young men/boys (13/14 is a man there) he had to shoot because they where indoctrinated into a jihad.

So again tell me the truth, you think the kid in the clip given all the information the clip provides was doing the right and good thing?

I can post a longer clip that shows the kid getting close and takes out the grenade rears back like he is about to throw it into the marines when Christ shoots him, then when he falls his mother runs out picks up the bomb and does the same and chris shoots her.

Again who is the good guy here? the kid about to blow up the platoon of marines or the sniper who kills him dead before he has a chance?

[Losty]

I think you don’t understand the difference between good and innocent. Also, I think you’re so silly as to believe that someone doing a bad thing automatically makes them a bad person.

All children are innocent. Likely all children are naturally good (if you believe in a person being able to be “good”), but they obviously can be manipulated by adults.

[Drich]

If I had to define good and evil in terms of good people or bad people I'd say
good = a degree of empathy that spurs selflessness
evil = a degree of selfishness that comes from a lack of empathy

and if you want me to factor in my religious perspective, since this thread is in that forum:

natural evil= The axiomatic degree to which people act against God's will
natural good= The axiomatic characteristic of God's empathetic and compassionate nature towards positive outcomes for the most people

moral good = the ethical correctness of God's revealed will
moral evil = sin (going against God's will)

what do you use to define the types of good and evil?

I've never seen a biblical examples subdivided like this. There was man's good and God's version as well as evil but it seems you have fond deeper meaning?

just asking not trying to start a debate..

What or why does empathy have anything to do with Good or evil? I can perform evil acts with or without consideration to anyone or anything, or i can do acts of evil out of empathy according to this defination..

for example I know lying is wrong. if my wife asks do I look fat, the answer is always no even if she is pouring out of a dress like an over filled muffin pan. One I did this out of empathy, but doing so is a lie which is a sin that I am now defending as good which literally is a form of evil.

So then how oes emotion play into good and evil and is there some sort of example you had in mind?

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I think you don’t understand the difference between good and innocent. Also, I think you’re so silly as to believe that someone doing a bad thing automatically makes them a bad person.

All children are innocent. Likely all children are naturally good (if you believe in a person being able to be “good”), but they obviously can be manipulated by adults.

if they are manipulated by adults are they then still innocent?

If so please define how you are using innocent.

Because there is nothing innocent about trying to kill as many marines as you can with a huge oversized bomb, or an RPG in one case and as a rifleman in another.

How does one maintain innocence if they are trying to kill or mame people?

[Losty]

Since I made the thread, I’ll answer the questions. (Also, not really sure why I posted this in the religion forum, can’t remember lol)

I don’t believe in good and evil really. Not like that. I think subjectively things can be good (better than neutral) or bad (worse than neutral). Good is a word I use often. Just to mean something I like or something I think benefits myself, others, or the world. Evil is a word I never use. The concept of evil is silly to me, because it seems to imply some sort of supernatural meaning to the word bad.

The thing is I think everyone is good by their own terms. No one sets out to be bad. No one chooses to be a bad person. I think I read once that human beings tend to base their morals on what they want to do rather than basing what they want to do on their morals. So there’s a lot of justifying that goes on, with all of us. But I think everyone tries to do good based on what they believe to be good. This is likely an evolutionary trait? I’m assuming. Being “good” and doing “good” gives us a better shot at surviving and at happiness I guess.

[Losty]

I think you don’t understand the difference between good and innocent. Also, I think you’re so silly as to believe that someone doing a bad thing automatically makes them a bad person.

All children are innocent. Likely all children are naturally good (if you believe in a person being able to be “good”), but they obviously can be manipulated by adults.

if they are manipulated by adults are they then still innocent?

If so please define how you are using innocent.

Because there is nothing innocent about trying to kill as many marines as you can with a huge oversized bomb, or an RPG in one case and as a rifleman in another.

How does one maintain innocence if they are trying to kill or mame people?

Yes, they are still innocent.

I define this as meaning they are not at fault.

. If I hold a gun to your head and tell you to kill someone or die, you can kill someone and maintain your innocence. You would not be at fault.

Children do not get to choose who raises them nor how they are raised. They are not capable of understanding the consequences of what they do, especially if that’s all they’ve ever been taught.