Pregnant Alabama Woman who was shot charged with Manslaughter of her unborn baby

[Cecelia]

Punishing a woman for miscarying -- however it happens -- is sickening. This is why I'm glad I left Christianity a long time ago. They only want to control women. Alabama is a shithole.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[quote='Gawdzilla Sama' pid='1916795' dateline='156198

Yes, in that situation I'd expect charges for negligence, not manslaughter when they are not the ones doing the slaughtering

Different states, different laws. We don't know if this will ever go to court. The police don't decide that.

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Punishing a woman for miscarying -- however it happens -- is sickening.  This is why I'm glad I left Christianity a long time ago.  They only want to control women.  Alabama is a shithole.

Punishing a woman for doing stupid shit that lead to the death of her child isn't all that unreasonable IMNSHO.

[Cecelia]

Punishing a woman for doing stupid shit that lead to the death of her child isn't all that unreasonable IMNSHO.

This isn't a woman who left her gun out, and her son got a hold of it and shot her 9 year old daughter.  No, if that were the case she wouldn't have been charged with anything.  If this were a woman who didn't get her child vaccinated, and they died from measles, they wouldn't be charged.  Nor would she be charged if she refused to get treatment for her sick child because she believed 'prayer' would work.

So you can stick your not so humble opinion where the sun doesn't shine.  This woman miscarried.  If you think women should be charged with something for miscarrying -- then you're a pretty disgusting person tbh. Oh and I'm betting you're a man, so you'll never have to worry about miscarrying. So yeah.... take that opinion of yours and shove it.

[Aegon]

Please do enlighten me under the circumstances in which this woman should be charged with manslaughter. Because I cannot imagine one.

Why wouldn't the person who shot her point blank in the stomach be held responsible for the unborn baby's death?

Because, in majority of states, and most circumstances there is a felony murder law where

The felony murder rule is a rule that allows a defendant to be charged with first-degree murder for a killing that occurs during a dangerous felony, even if the defendant is not the killer. The felony murder rule applies only to those crimes that are considered “inherently dangerous,” as the rationale underlying the felony murder rule is that certain crimes are so dangerous that society wants to deter individuals from engaging in them altogether. Thus, when a person participates in an inherently dangerous crime, he or she may be held responsible for the fatal consequences of that crime, even if someone else caused the actual death.

While there may be qualms as to the definition of "inherently dangerous" and whether the resultant death was merged with the original cause, basically the rule should be "don't start no shit, won't be no shit". It's called the unintentional death is a felony and doesn't require intent or malice when not in the first degree.

Is that the law being used to justify these charges? What dangerous felony was occurring at the time? (Assuming she was unarmed) I don't think starting a fight is a felony? This seems more like something that would apply if you were committing burglary and the person you were burglarizing died without an intent on your part to murder them.

[no one]

This is sickening. While I wholeheartedly concede she is not a victim in the traditional sense of the word. She is nonetheless a victim. Were her actions questionable? Yes. Were they intelligent? No. Is it reasonable to think she would get shot? No. Maybe in the days of the old west.

It is absolutely retarded for charges to be filed. I could see if she was a heroin addict, or other such deliberate self-destructive behavior. But, to have an altercation and then be shot over it, is not actually a reasonable conclusion. But, whoever said that the human being is a reasonable creature?

I've seen some hypotheticals thrown around. Let's throw in another one:

A parent is driving with their toddler all safe and secure in the car seat. As they are driving along, some cockstain blows a stop sign, and nearly hits them. And the next stoplight, the parent asks said cockstain if they are blind. A few choice words are tossed back and forth before the cockstain pulls out a gun and fires into the car. Striking and killing the toddler, is the parent at fault? I mean they could of just let the blown stop sign incident just go. They didn't have to say anything.

This actually happened. A few years back. A grown man lures an 11 year old boy into an alley, where he fatally stabs the young boy because the man had an earlier altercation with the boy's father. Is the father to blame?

[LastPoet]

I don't care for hypotheticals. The fact remains that a woman was shot by a firearm because she started a fist fight? Hell, so much for american bravery. How hard can it be, to even dodge attacks from a pregnant woman for like 1 hour before the cops get by? Pregant women tire real fast.

And seeing the fight insued about the Y-donor, why isn't him being charged? I mean, to fuck around, its all fun and dandy, but one should take reponsability fpr where one sticks his dick on. And I don't buy the whole "I slipped and stuck my penis onto her vagina" story

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Punishing a woman for doing stupid shit that lead to the death of her child isn't all that unreasonable IMNSHO.

This isn't a woman who left her gun out, and her son got a hold of it and shot her 9 year old daughter.  No, if that were the case she wouldn't have been charged with anything.  If this were a woman who didn't get her child vaccinated, and they died from measles, they wouldn't be charged.  Nor would she be charged if she refused to get treatment for her sick child because she believed 'prayer' would work.

So you can stick your not so humble opinion where the sun doesn't shine.  This woman miscarried.  If you think women should be charged with something for miscarrying -- then you're a pretty disgusting person tbh.  Oh and I'm betting you're a man, so you'll never have to worry about miscarrying.  So yeah.... take that opinion of yours and shove it.

I'm glad you don't have a gun.

[tackattack]

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Because, in majority of states, and most circumstances there is a felony murder law where
While there may be qualms as to the definition of "inherently dangerous" and whether the resultant death was merged with the original cause, basically the rule should be "don't start no shit, won't be no shit". It's called the unintentional death is a felony and doesn't require intent or malice when not in the first degree.

Is that the law being used to justify these charges? What dangerous felony was occurring at the time? (Assuming she was unarmed) I don't think starting a fight is a felony? This seems more like something that would apply if you were committing burglary and the person you were burglarizing died without an intent on your part to murder them.

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I'm fairly certain it is. The grand jury chose to dismiss changes on the beating victim, and charge the mother-to-be with manslaughter. Just like crack addicts can be, and often are, charged for taking drugs while pregnant. Just like it should be illegal for gun owners to be irresponsible with their guns, etc. For me this issue isn't about when the fetus receives personhood. It seems to make a difference where a fetus is a person in Alabama, though. That would confer felony murder, just as if there was a child in the car of the dollar general parking lot that was shot and killed while she beat the shit out of her baby-daddy's new beau against it. Even if it wasn't a person, she must have considered it her child to name and cremate it. It is dead because she aggressively sought and continued to punish someone physically to the point she felt the need to fight back. Whether endangering the child, murder or just felony assault she does deserve to be punished. I feel bad for her loss and the apparent bad time she's been having,but that doesn't excuse her actions or culpability.

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Punishing a woman for miscarying -- however it happens -- is sickening. This is why I'm glad I left Christianity a long time ago. They only want to control women. Alabama is a shithole.

She's not being punished for miscarrying, she's being held responsible for starting shit and the ramifications from that. In alababma fetuses are people, hence manslaughter. Is your problem with the amount of punishment or that she shouldn't be punished at all?

[LastPoet]

A raging lunatic, I wouldn'd shoot, let alone a pregnant woman. What was the charge for the person that fired the gun? If justice is to be served, I expect 3 times worse.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A raging lunatic, I wouldn'd shoot, let alone a pregnant woman. What was the charge for the person that firednthe gun?

That other woman? Not sure.