Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 12:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2019 at 12:21 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I’m not interested in trying to help you understand your own beliefs as they relate to others. It’s a pointless task, you’re as clever as rock.
I want to hear how a theistic god would be required for moral realism.
Anything else is stalling for time in the absence of that explanation.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 7:18 am
(August 2, 2019 at 12:21 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I’m not interested in trying to help you understand your own beliefs as they relate to others. It’s a pointless task, you’re as clever as rock.
I want to hear how a theistic god would be required for moral realism.
Anything else is stalling for time in the absence of that explanation.
According to your description of moral realism, good and bad are purely descriptive and not normative statements, but synonymous with x causes harm. And since according to you moral realism only requires an acceptance of this, no God is required.
There is nothing in this moral realism that you articulated that requires any god, or teleology.
Unlike Vulcans whose moral views require some sort of teleological conception of Good
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 7:21 am
Okay, you can’t explain how a theistic god would be required for moral realism. If it is required, and there is such an explanation, you dont know what it is.
How about a deistic god?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 7:31 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2019 at 7:32 am by Acrobat.)
(August 1, 2019 at 11:21 am)Fierce Wrote: What do we do with cancer? We attempt to remove it. The same should be done of theism that is the cancer on society.
I know, cancer needs to be killed. We should gather up theist have them renounce theism, refuse to spread or push it on their children. Perhaps making it illegal, with tough penalties for them.
Perhaps people like my parents should have been jailed, or had their children taken away for raising us up in church.
If all else fails there always detention facilities, and the gulag.
Why give cancer any room to spread or thrive?
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 7:42 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2019 at 7:42 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Okay, so you can’t explain how a deistic god would be required for moral realism either. If it is, and there is such an explanation, you don’t have it.
How about any god whatsoever? Can you explain how any god would be required for moral realism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 10:28 am
(August 2, 2019 at 7:42 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Okay, so you can’t explain how a deistic god would be required for moral realism either. If it is, and there is such an explanation, you don’t have it.
How about any god whatsoever? Can you explain how any god would be required for moral realism?
Since I indicated theism, encompass deism, and other forms of god belief, your question is redundant.
The moral realism described by you, where good and bad are purely descriptive, synonymous with harm, requires no god of any type.
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 10:53 am
Okay then, if a deistic god is required or if there is some explanation for why it would be, you don’t know how or what that explanation is.
How about any other kind of god not specifically belonging to either set? Can you explain how or why any god, of any kind, would be required for moral realism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 11:07 am
(August 2, 2019 at 10:53 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Okay then, if a deistic god is required or if there is some explanation for why it would be, you don’t know how or what that explanation is.
How about any other kind of god not specifically belonging to either set? Can you explain how or why any god, of any kind, would be required for moral realism?
No god of any type, is required for the description of moral realism you supplied, where good and bad are descriptive statements, synonymous with harm.
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 11:09 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2019 at 11:10 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There we have it. If any kind of god, theistic, deistic, or other-than™ is required and if there’s any explanation for that, you don’t know how and you don’t possess that explanation.
So, why would you think that a person who no longer believes in a god would just stop believing in moral realism? Can you explain that?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
August 2, 2019 at 11:15 am
(August 2, 2019 at 11:09 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: There we have it. If any kind of god, theistic, deistic, or other-than™ is required and if there’s any explanation for that, you don’t know how and you don’t possess that explanation.
So, why would you think that a person who no longer believes in a god would just stop believing in moral realism? Can you explain that?
As long as they agree to your definitions that moral statements are descriptive and not normative. That good and bad are just descriptions of harm.
Yes, an atheist can stop believing in god, recognize objective harm, which seem to be your minimum requirement for moral realism.
|
