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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 5:42 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 5:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@
Again, you have some deeper objection to whether or not there are facts, or any way of knowing. I don't. I accept that those facts which inform us of the potential for non human cognizance are commensurate to any other type of fact by which we claim to know things. Commensurate, in fact, to those facts which inform us of human consciousness.
I expect that cats and bats have content that I don't..the same is true for cats and bats and my own content. I don't have a problem with that. I expect the conscious content of other conscious agents to be different. Particularly so when they're equipped with disparate sensory apparatus. Hell, they're different just between you and I. Its additionally obvious that the apparatus of cognizance itself is more well developed in some species than others. None of this reduces anything to senselessness, that's an incredible claim. Wrong with respect to everything that we know, and right by reference to no fact whatsoever. The lord of creation spread this gift far and wide, if the lord of creation was involved.
I still have no idea why this would be a problem for you. I keep asking, it obviously is, but you're not telling me why it would be.
So what if people weren't the sole possessors of conscious agency?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:04 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 6:05 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
"Many other animals are also conscious, some, even have a conscience." -Gae
Again, my only problem is with claims such as the one you made above, when you don't possibly have access to such information.
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:11 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 6:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That would be an epistemic disagreement, but it's unimportant to hash it out.
You are not being forthright. That you have an epistemic disagreement with me is clearly not the problem. Let's imagine a world in which there are no facts and no way for me to know that other animals are conscious, and that their conscious includes a conscience. Nevertheless, it's true. This is a world in which you have me dead to rights, and I'm accidentally right.
Is there some issue that this presents for your worldview?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:32 pm
My worldview?
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:37 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 6:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yes, John, your worldview. There's no factual issue with non human consciousness or conscience. I assume that you have an ideological objection.
What would that be?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:52 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 6:53 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
I'm a graduate student studying cognitive science. My religion is scientific accuracy; don't sin against my religion with unsubstantiated claims about consciousness.
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 6:53 pm
John, your religion isn't scientific accuracy...why are we even doing this? Are you willing to state your ideological objection, or not?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 7:04 pm
I can't state something I don't have. But I enjoy the attempt to hide your unsubstantiated claims about consciousness with such a transition.
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 7:06 pm
(This post was last modified: February 10, 2020 at 7:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pointless. You either have no objection, or you simply don't wish to field it. If you have no ideological objection, then you have no objection at all.
Both of us know that this isn't true, and there's no one in this thread who you will, or need to convince otherwise. It's -okay- just spit it the fuck out. You've already flirted with it. You are aware that those same things we take to be indicative of consciousness and conscience in humans, are also present in animals. You -strongly- insist that these observations are insufficient, and not for no reason whatsoever. Whatever that reason is, is the only productive avenue of discussion open to us. What compels you to insist that there are no facts, and no way to know?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God a logical contradiction?
February 10, 2020 at 7:12 pm
What does that even mean? It's not enough to call you out on your unsubstantiated claims, I need an entire religion or else I have no objection?
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