Posts: 67303
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 2:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 2:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Fucking Christ, what is it with Christians and shit written on a cave wall?
It’s not as if centuries of rational discourse haven’t followed, identifying the issues on systems such as Plato’s.
At least argue contemporary non naturalism. You’ll have a better shot. I know from experience on the boards, lol.
While you’re at it, get some reading comprehension and unclog your ears. You e made it blisteringly obvious what you believe, that’s not the issue. The issue is that you think the term for what you believe is something other than what it is, lol.
You’re a supernatural subjectivist, not a non natural realist. Plato wasn’t a supernatural subjectivist, even though he had a shitload of weird beliefs. Looking to Plato to stamp your Christian morality is pure fucking folly, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 2:58 pm by Acrobat.)
(August 13, 2019 at 2:49 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 2:44 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Non natural realist, believe that moral properties exist, but that these properties are not reducible to natural facts.
Scientific and historical facts are all natural facts, so objective goodness doesn't lay somewhere among these natural facts, in the non-naturalist view.
I did indicate what i believe, that I believe in a non-natural reality, akin to Plato's Form of the Good. And this is the belief I'm defending, primarily against atheists who subscribe to a natural moral realism,
Acro, if you cut off my head, is it a fact that that is bad for me?
No, the only scientific/historical fact here is that I cut off your head.
Now if we to talk about facts about our brain states when contemplating the idea of cutting your head, we can provide a similar set of facts about this as well. That it was probably very painful, that you prior to getting your head off, probably wish it didn't happen. That your family and friends would be sad for your loss, and a bunch of other facts like this.
Posts: 67303
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
- and unlike a realist, of any kind....you don’t think that any of these facts are morally relevant facts.
To be a realist, of any kind, you must think that some fact -of cutting off heads- is morally relevant. Period.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:18 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:24 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(August 13, 2019 at 2:58 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 2:49 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Acro, if you cut off my head, is it a fact that that is bad for me?
No, the only scientific/historical fact here is that I cut off your head.
Now if we to talk about facts about our brain states when contemplating the idea of cutting your head, we can provide a similar set of facts about this as well. That it was probably very painful, that you prior to getting your head off, probably wish it didn't happen. That your family and friends would be sad for your loss, and a bunch of other facts like this.
Acro, what is morality? Why do we talk about it? Why is it important to us as living, thinking beings? Do you think that morality should concern itself with well-being? If not, what should it concern itself with? Further, is “The Good” concerned with well-being?
Is capital punishment for a child rapist/murderer objectively moral? Why or why not? What does “the magical good” say on that?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 67303
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If he can’t provide you with a single morally relevant fact of the matter of torturing babies or cutting off your head, the likelihood of him presenting a single morally relevant fact of any other matter is swiftly approaching nil.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:27 pm
(August 13, 2019 at 3:20 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If he can’t provide you with a single morally relevant fact of the matter of torturing babies or cutting off your head, the likelihood of him presenting a single morally relevant fact of any other matter is swiftly approaching nil.
Lol, my point is, if, according to Acro, there is no moral relevancy to the fact of my head chopped off, what’s the point of him debating morality at all?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:31 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:38 pm by LadyForCamus.)
And the worst irony is that while he’ll probably argue that well-being is unrelated to, or not enough to meet the supernatural standards of “The Objective Good”, by sheer coincidence (insert heavy sarcasm here) it seems that “The Objective Good”, according to Acro, is mainly concerned with well-being, lol. Ex: “it’s objectively wrong to torture babies, and do Holocausts.”
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 67303
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:37 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 13, 2019 at 3:27 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Lol, my point is, if, according to Acro, there is no moral relevancy to the fact of my head chopped off, what’s the point of him debating morality at all? He isn’t. Never has been. That’s just window dressing. So unimportant that he never took the time to learn the terms, the arguments, or even the positions he’s alluded to.
His position is that atheists can’t account for morality, but morality is really real.....therefore....
That’s why no atheist, accounting for a “really real” morality, no matter whether they accurately describe natural or non natural realism, meets his bar. They can’t, or his “therefore” is scuttled.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:44 pm
@ Gae Bolga
For my education purposes, what would be an example of non-natural realism?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 1006
Threads: 10
Joined: January 10, 2019
Reputation:
3
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
August 13, 2019 at 3:50 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2019 at 3:51 pm by Acrobat.)
(August 13, 2019 at 3:27 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (August 13, 2019 at 3:20 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If he can’t provide you with a single morally relevant fact of the matter of torturing babies or cutting off your head, the likelihood of him presenting a single morally relevant fact of any other matter is swiftly approaching nil.
Lol, my point is, if, according to Acro, there is no moral relevancy to the fact of my head chopped off, what’s the point of him debating morality at all?
The world of scientific and historical facts are just the way things are, the reality of goodness is about the way it ought to be. It's a reality, like an ideal, a perfection, a perfect kingdom, a perfect person.
We see the good in our reality through this, as well as all it's failings. The holocaust is a bad, because it's something that should have never taken place in that perfect kingdom. It's bad because it reflects what is broken, and we recognize that which is broken, by seeing even dimly, something whole.
|
