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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 3:28 pm
At work.
(September 16, 2019 at 3:19 pm)Lek Wrote: You're not telling the truth. You're looking for physicality verifiable evidence. I've given you evidence, but you rejected it. Now I'm admitting that I have no evidence that would convince you. And I'm not telling you what to believe, but rather what I believe. You all asked me why. Go ahead and believe what you want.
Hello Lek.
Well.... what you've presented is your 'Feelings' about something.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Now. I can present to you my 'Feelings' about both chocolate ice cream as well as Anne McAffery's dragons which inhabit the planet of Pern.
My 'Feelings' get neither of us close as to which of those two ideas/concepts are actually real.
Providing actual evidence of ice cream made of choclate constituents and/or a planet of dragons WILL, however, show which idea is closer to realitym
Hope that helps some.
Cheers
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 4:35 pm
(September 16, 2019 at 1:07 pm)Lek Wrote: You guys are hardcore atheists and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you. If God, who is a spiritual being, is communicating himself to us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time one will know if it's God. Your argument that billions of sane, educated people are experiencing illusions, or mistaken about what they experience doesn't hold much weight. I think that your belief that anything might exist beyond what we can perceive by natural means is mistaken.
The truth is that you will never accept God because he's not going to give you the evidence that you want. I'll concede that I have nothing that will convince you that there is a God and, fortunately, God doesn't ask me to do that.
You are just a hardcore anti-gnomist and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you. If invisible gnomes, which are invisible, are communicating with us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time, we will know that it is invisible gnomes.
The truth is that you will never accept invisible gnomes because they're not going to give you the evidence you want. I'll concede tht I have nothing that will convince you that there are invisible gnomes and, fortunately, invisible gnomes don't ask me to do that.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 6:30 pm
(September 16, 2019 at 4:35 pm)polymath257 Wrote: (September 16, 2019 at 1:07 pm)Lek Wrote: You guys are hardcore atheists and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you. If God, who is a spiritual being, is communicating himself to us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time one will know if it's God. Your argument that billions of sane, educated people are experiencing illusions, or mistaken about what they experience doesn't hold much weight. I think that your belief that anything might exist beyond what we can perceive by natural means is mistaken.
The truth is that you will never accept God because he's not going to give you the evidence that you want. I'll concede that I have nothing that will convince you that there is a God and, fortunately, God doesn't ask me to do that.
You are just a hardcore anti-gnomist and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you. If invisible gnomes, which are invisible, are communicating with us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time, we will know that it is invisible gnomes.
The truth is that you will never accept invisible gnomes because they're not going to give you the evidence you want. I'll concede tht I have nothing that will convince you that there are invisible gnomes and, fortunately, invisible gnomes don't ask me to do that.
Are you saying that LEK is guilty of special pleading for his god?!
NO!!! Tell me it ain't so...
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 7:30 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2019 at 7:32 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(September 16, 2019 at 3:19 pm)Lek Wrote: You're not telling the truth. You're looking for physicality verifiable evidence. I've given you evidence, but you rejected it. Now I'm admitting that I have no evidence that would convince you. And I'm not telling you what to believe, but rather what I believe. You all asked me why. Go ahead and believe what you want.
No truth without adequate evidence that pass muster. Evidence that does not pass muster is no evidence. Insufficient evidence that passed muster is insufficient.
Why would anyone be so pathetic that he would be beholden to a god who can't even provide the even a tiny fraction of the evidence a inanimate piece of beetle shit provides every minute with zero effort?
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 7:55 pm
(September 16, 2019 at 1:07 pm)Lek Wrote: You guys are hardcore atheists and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you.
Not sure what a 'hardcore' atheist is but OK, it's fair to say we want testable evidence.
Quote:If God, who is a spiritual being, is communicating himself to us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time one will know if it's God.
Firstly we would have to define what you mean by spiritual, and how we can tell there is a 'spiritual' at all.. how do we go about that ?
Quote:Your argument that billions of sane, educated people are experiencing illusions, or mistaken about what they experience doesn't hold much weight.
So how do you tell the difference between an experience/illusion (which we know absolutely happen) and a communication from a god ?
Quote:The truth is that you will never accept God because he's not going to give you the evidence that you want.
It's not a case of what we want, such a powerful all knowing being would surely know what would convince us, and why would he not reveal himself to us, being our creator, wanting us to know him etc. etc...
Quote:I'll concede that I have nothing that will convince you that there is a God and, fortunately, God doesn't ask me to do that.
Perhaps just as well hey 
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 16, 2019 at 10:55 pm
If a god doesn't exist, then it's not a god that is talking to you.
You need to establish existence first.
If you can't establish existence, then something else is talking to you or you are hearing things that don't exist.
You are now left with the possibility that you are hearing things and attributing that unknown experience to something else that is also unknown.
I'll repeat this again.
If a god doesn't exist, then what you are hearing is not coming from a god.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 17, 2019 at 2:27 am
(September 16, 2019 at 6:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (September 16, 2019 at 4:35 pm)polymath257 Wrote: You are just a hardcore anti-gnomist and demand a specific kind of evidence which I can't give you. If invisible gnomes, which are invisible, are communicating with us, there is probably not going to be any physical evidence to show to anybody. At the same time, we will know that it is invisible gnomes.
The truth is that you will never accept invisible gnomes because they're not going to give you the evidence you want. I'll concede tht I have nothing that will convince you that there are invisible gnomes and, fortunately, invisible gnomes don't ask me to do that.
Are you saying that LEK is guilty of special pleading for his god?!
NO!!! Tell me it ain't so...
Actually, and honestly. This isnt about Leks god. Its all about Lek himself.
When being pushed into a corner he finally (1-2 pages ago), came up with the baseball bat analogy. He clearly said that the core of his belief is that he has had an experience which cannot be anything else than a god revealing to Lek. He absolutely refuses to discuss and consider anything else. Go back and read it.
In other words: Its not about god but about Lek, not wanting to be told what he experienced or not. He feels offended by the suggeston he could be wrong abousomething that. He possibly thinks its a violation of his privacy. Its about himself, not god, Its about his goddamn right to conclude what he wants and proclaim it to be true. No goddamn atheist is gonna tell him what to think!
Of course he is fundamentally wrong. Nobody denies he had an experience, and several people already told him that countless people had experienes too in history. But other people dont matter to Lek. Lek knows that Lek is right (in his interpretation), and that is all that matters. Ego and intellctual lazyness. 
Lek is special. Its not special pleading for god, its special pleading for Lek.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 17, 2019 at 7:12 am
Yeah guys you are worshipping evidence therefore you're in a religion of evidencism.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 17, 2019 at 8:15 am
OP still hasn't answered my question
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 17, 2019 at 12:16 pm
(September 17, 2019 at 8:15 am)EgoDeath Wrote: OP still hasn't answered my question
Sorry. I went back four pages and couldn't find it. Could you maybe copy and paste it on to a new post and I'll make it a point to answer.
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