The argument against God

[CoxRox]

I agree with you 100%, Bozo, that the theist has the burden of proof. But sometimes it does help to put on that christian hat and work within their framework. I think it does help if you are attempting to reach out to people and help them understand, because most people are raised to believe in God as fact just as the sun is real. I know how it's hard to reverse that thinking and realize the sun actually shows it exists and god doesn't. I know because I did it myself. There's a big disconnect in thinking between theists and atheists a lot of times and I think it is worth it sometimes to go within their framework because that's the only way they can understand. Some atheists see the value in it, other's don't.

You have said what I wanted to say, but I didn't feel it was right for me to say it.

[nobelives]

Hi, there should be no arguments about god existence, is just enough to remember where does the word "atheism" came from. It came from the possible fact that people needs and belives in a force or persons or whatever people believed through history and cultures, but it doesn´t mean god is real or is the exactly representation of those belives. Is so simple than think about this forum, if a lot of people doesn´t think god is real, this forum should never exist. If we think about a kind of philosophical existense of god, or as a word, is obvious it really exist in almost all cultures; and when some body that belives in god do something because of his or her god, they are making to god to exist, at least in the mind or in the thing people do because their belives just as we make atheism to exist. The power of god is really the power of people to belive and do things because of those belives, even kill other people when their religion said and ask to not to kill. And exactly there is where the confusing or paradoxical facts appears.
We can say god is this or that, but really, seems like we are sures to have the absolut true, but is not real, is just something we think or feel. I prefer to think that we as specie can be so immerse in the childhood of humanity and as a child or a teen we think to know everything but really we are not even ready to know such a big true as god existence.
The real argument against god are all the people, even those who belives in god and rape their own belives, the arguments are the paradoxes, all the diferent religion that do stupid and even inhuman things to preserve themselves. The people who seems to feel to be god and know everything we don´t know yet. We think we have the absolut true, and as some body said some day:
Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned...
*(Haile Selassie speech for organization of african unity)

if we change the word race for religion, the frase above have the same signification, we are all wrong, and we should not kill, bother, abuse or try to change anybody. There is an entire life to know the true, and is very posible to us to never know any true about god; i sugest the adventure and the chalenge is to survive through all the diferences we have and walk together to the true without think our true is the absolut true in universe, come on... and i understand i can be wrong too, but we don´t know really, right?

[True Unbeliever]

Hi, there should be no arguments about god existence, is just enough to remember where does the word "atheism" came from. It came from the possible fact that people needs and belives in a force or persons or whatever people believed through history and cultures, but it doesn´t mean god is real or is the exactly representation of those belives. Is so simple than think about this forum, if a lot of people doesn´t think god is real, this forum should never exist. If we think about a kind of philosophical existense of god, or as a word, is obvious it really exist in almost all cultures; and when some body that belives in god do something because of his or her god, they are making to god to exist, at least in the mind or in the thing people do because their belives just as we make atheism to exist. The power of god is really the power of people to belive and do things because of those belives, even kill other people when their religion said and ask to not to kill. And exactly there is where the confusing or paradoxical facts appears.
We can say god is this or that, but really, seems like we are sures to have the absolut true, but is not real, is just something we think or feel. I prefer to think that we as specie can be so immerse in the childhood of humanity and as a child or a teen we think to know everything but really we are not even ready to know such a big true as god existence.
The real argument against god are all the people, even those who belives in god and rape their own belives, the arguments are the paradoxes, all the diferent religion that do stupid and even inhuman things to preserve themselves. The people who seems to feel to be god and know everything we don´t know yet. We think we have the absolut true, and as some body said some day:
Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned...
*(Haile Selassie speech for organization of african unity)

if we change the word race for religion, the frase above have the same signification, we are all wrong, and we should not kill, bother, abuse or try to change anybody. There is an entire life to know the true, and is very posible to us to never know any true about god; i sugest the adventure and the chalenge is to survive through all the diferences we have and walk together to the true without think our true is the absolut true in universe, come on... and i understand i can be wrong too, but we don´t know really, right?

You lost me after 'Hi'...sorry I did try

[Darwinian]

Phew that's a relief. I thought it was just me! hock:

[Tiberius]

I think I get it. He is saying that there is no point having all these arguments against God, because the fact that people believe in all sorts of incompatible gods and every religion has inconstancies themselves is proof enough that it doesn't exist.

I don't think it's that good of an argument...and in that respect is quite self-contradictory. Unless I've got it wrong of course.

[leo-rcc]

I did what i usually do in posts as long as that and break it all up into segments. That way it is a lot easier to read and make sense of.

First of all, welcome to the forum Nobelives. Yes, to a very large extent I agree with what you are saying. Most humans do have some form of need or belief in a force or personified deity to explain things they cant comprehend or to blame or give credit to when something happens (good harvest, praise the god of plentiful harvests. Volcano eruption? The god of the volcano is angry). That in itself doesn't make the existence of a deity no more true or false, but it helps people who don't know better to cope with the situations. The consequences stay the same. The only thing detrimental to such beliefs are that usually some kind of sacrifice is made, which at best is a waste of good food, or at worst the waste of human lives (think Maya and Aztek for instance).

Actions are through history dictated by forms of religion, or based on environmental circumstances, or because of colonial conquest. Usually a mixture of all of them. Sometimes the most horrific things are done under the disguise of religion, but had a much more political motive.

[Edwardo Piet]

Um burden of proof?

What's the argument against the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Flying Teapot?

Burden of proof is on the believer not the non-believer.

Other than that - that its just that God cannot just "happen" and you cannot definite him to have just "been there" when if he created the universe he would have to be at least as complex and improbable as the universe itself.

You know the whole infinite regress thing. And Dawkins' Ultimate Boeing 747 argument.

If there's going to be a terminator it would be so simple why call it God?

'God As A Physical Constant.'
[youtube]oP8LpS90lH8[/youtube]

If anyone is interested enough in this video it can be moved to start a thread in itself in the video forum.

I think its a very good clip.
Evf

[Ace Otana]

nobelives, I had a hard time understanding your post there.hock:

[Eilonnwy]

nobelives, I had a hard time understanding your post there.hock:

I agree, and I'm sorry but I just have to be the asshole that points out...

You mispelled believes...every single time. If you want to form an argument, spelling is really important. It conveys who you are and the seriousness in which your argument is taken. Typos are one thing, I do them all the time, but it's obvious you don't know how to spell believe which is ironic given that's all you're talking about.

[nobelives]

hi again, sorry because of my stupid english. Let me explain, i´ll try. I meant to say: all the contradictions in religions, all the things we know are not enought to fully understand the idea of a god, we can only see the shadows from the real tihngs. Humanity is in a sort of child age or teen age. Do you remember when you was a teen?? with all the contradictions, paradoxes, well, that´s part of the growing old. Humanity is growing old. We are fighting because a lot of ideas but we are so ignorants about a lot of stuffs we need to know to discover where we came from. Is like little childs talking about sex; we are little kids attempting to understand life. If all we understand we don´t know nothing, is easier to find the true instead of make stupid things trying to prove or not the existence of a god or gods. Sorry again because of my grammar. I am from south america, my english is not the best, but now i learned something new for me about the spelling. Thankz for make me notice about it and my apologies again. Really i am living in the most catholic spanish spoken country, ironic isn´t it? but even more ronic is this: people here wants their criminals to be dead, they want them to be executed. My best for you all.